AVCHD: benign PsF and malignant PsF

Question

AVCHD: benign PsF and malignant PsF

I hope this helps someone. I'm re-posting this from a thread I orginally began at a Creative Cow forum. The links are worth a read if you are using AVCHD especially from a recent Canon camcorder (it appears that the files from the Canon DSLRs are genuine 30p and don't have this issue). I shoot with the Canon Vixia HF S100.

=============================================================================

"I spent what may have been too much time last night researching this, but here's what I came up with:

Writer Allan Tépper has a series of articles on just this issue and it's essentially new info as of the last month or so.

--

In part 1 here,

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workf...

...he defines two new terms, benign PsF and malignant PsF. It appears that most of the Canon prosumer video camcorders like my Vixia HF S100 create the "malignant" type PsF file. In a nutshell, the camera creates a progressive file, but mis-tags it so that even the most recent versions of PP 5.5 and FCP X mistake it as an interlaced file. Here's more from Allan on this:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/empsf8217s_missing_wor...

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workf...

It's explained that this file must be modified slightly so that the editing program can correctly identify the file as progressive. Otherwise, FCP X will try to de-interlace a file that doesn't need to be de-interlaced and will ultimately result in unwanted artifacts and lack of sharpness.

At this point, there appears to be two solutions:

http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2011/12/02/editing-canon-30p-pf30-footag...

Solution 1 for Canon PF30 - Malignant PsF- Simply import into FCPX twice:

-Use Import From Camera to import your footage into Event 1.

-Then, use Import Files, and import the files in Final Cut Events / Event1 / Original Media – and put them into a new Event 2.

Solution 2 for Canon PF30 - Malignant PsF- Use ClipWrap to pre-wrap the .MTS files and FCP X will recognize them as Progressive.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workf...

http://www.divergentmedia.com/blog/fullpost/announcing_clipwrap_244_update

--

I will likely go with the ClipWrap solution as the free solution is just too many hoops for me to jump through to get work done. Once I've gotten the PF30 file correctly tagged as progressive, I will set up my new Project as 1280x720 HD, 29.97p and get to editing."

================================================================================ ===========

I did end up buying the full version of ClipWrap yesterday and have started to re-wrap my files with the .MOV extension and it not only solves the PsF issue, but now allows me preview the files in QT 7, toss the not-needed files, and then re-name the needed files before importing into FCP X (which ultimately works better for my brain and workflow). Also, no more artifacts from my FCPX mis-interpreted 29.97p files. I have never been a big fan of the Camera Archive mess, so this also allows me to file away all my footage in a more understandable manner without having to first open FCP X.

Dave

Posted on Dec 20, 2011 12:43 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

151,010 points

Dec 20, 2011 3:39 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Rather than double importing why don't you just change the field dominance of the imported clips in the event.

Reply

Answer 2

Dec 20, 2011 9:41 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote:

Rather than double importing why don't you just change the field dominance of the imported clips in the event.

Tom,

I didn't test it myself, but according to the 2 different article sources, it doesn't work correctly:

"When I was trying to find the difference between the first and second import, I noticed the second had the Field Dominance Override set to “Progressive”. Aha, I thought…one could simply change this setting on the original first-import footage, and it will be interpreted as 29.97p. And at first glance, it appears to work. However, if you take this footage and put it in a 29.97p timeline, it will have to render, and this should be unnecessary. Just using a second import step eliminates this problem."

http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2011/12/02/editing-canon-30p-pf30-footage-in- fcpx/

I did try the double import method, but it was too much of a pain to plan to do for every file I need to use, so I ended up going the ClipWrap route. Although, Rafael Amador did bring up the same point about changing the field dominance at the CC FCPX Techniques forum. I would have rather not spent the extra money, but I'm glad I did for the improved quality and ease of filing original media.

Thanks,

Dave

Reply

Answer 3

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

151,010 points

Dec 20, 2011 10:05 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

You should be able to set the project to match it. I've not seen it force render if the project is set correctly. Can you post a piece of this original media somewhere after it's been re=wrapped to QuickTime?

The camera is shooting 720p as PsF? That shouldn't happen ever. I can see if a 1080 format uses PsF as it's normally an interlaced format and most camera that can shoot 1080 can shoot 1080i. One more reason not to buy a Canon camera. They really make horrible devices. Even their DSLRs are the *****. Stick with Panasonic or Sony or even JVC if you want to shoot video.

Reply

Answer 4

Dec 20, 2011 10:26 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote:

One more reason not to buy a Canon camera. They really make horrible devices. Even their DSLRs are the *****. Stick with Panasonic or Sony or even JVC if you want to shoot video.

Tom,

I can't disagree, but it is what it is. I started years ago with a GL1 and FCP 4.5 and went for another Canon. I've got my workarounds worked out at this point and I need to move on to getting the video shot, edited, and up on the web for my web businesses. If the instructional video is a hit, I will be able to re-think the camera, but at this point, I need to move forward with what I've got. (In the last few months, I made the move from incandescent lighting to 5500k CF and from FCP 7 to FCPX -- that's enough change for a while.)

By the way, here is the original thread from the CC post if you'd like to see the discussion with Rafael:

http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/344/6302

(I shoot 1080p and use a 720p timeline for keyframed zooms and pans.)

Happy Holidays,

Dave

Reply

Answer 5

Dec 20, 2011 10:55 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom Wolsky wrote:

You should be able to set the project to match it. I've not seen it force render if the project is set correctly.

Tom,

With raw .mts Camera Archive files imported into FCPX, every timeliine scenario causes a render. If I first ClipWrap the raw .mts file so that it is re-wrapped with the .mov extension, I can put it on a 1080 29.97p timeline and it does not force a render. Evidently, Allan Tépper brought this issue to Colin McFadden at Divergent Media and as of v 2.4.4, Clipwrap wraps the files properly. I'm on the current version 2.4.6.

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_p art_8_clipwrap_to_the_rescue/

As you rightly pointed out, Canon messed this up. If you haven't had a chance yet to read Allan Tépper's 8-part article, it's worth the read. As it was all new to me, it took a couple of readings to make sense of it all, but it does seem to nail the problem.

Thanks,

Dave

Reply

Answer 6

Jan 18, 2012 1:34 AM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

Harmonica_Lessons wrote:

... camera creates a progressive file, but mis-tags it so that even the most recent versions of PP 5.5 and FCP X mistake it as an interlaced file.

have you tried to repair this wrong tag with the free tool JES EXTENSIFIER?

http://jeschot.home.xs4all.nl/home.html#EXT

(from the maker of famous JES Deinterlacer)

Reply

Answer 7

Jan 18, 2012 11:16 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Karsten,

I did not know about Jes Extensifier, but would have tried it if I had known at the time. Hopefully, it will help someone else down the road. I'm happy with ClipWrap as I can now also dump the card file structure and re-name the files to what ever I want before I begin archiving and editing. This workflow works much better for me.

Thanks,

Dave

Reply

Answer 8

EddieT

Level 1

27 points

Mar 17, 2012 6:05 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

Karsten Schlüter wrote:

Harmonica_Lessons wrote:

... camera creates a progressive file, but mis-tags it so that even the most recent versions of PP 5.5 and FCP X mistake it as an interlaced file.

have you tried to repair this wrong tag with the free tool JES EXTENSIFIER?

http://jeschot.home.xs4all.nl/home.html#EXT

(from the maker of famous JES Deinterlacer)

Karsten, have you tried the JES Deinterlacer? If so, what settings/workflow did you use?

Reply

Answer 9

Mar 17, 2012 11:16 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

JES EXTENSIFIER would be Quicktime based so would not recognize or work directly with AVCHD files.

And of course it would be too many hoops to re-wrap it to quicktime and then run JES EXTENSIFIER to tag it when Clipwrap alone could do it.

Reply

Answer 10

May 29, 2012 2:16 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

I have tried to use ClipWrap for importing 25 PsF footage from Canon HF11, but FCPX doesn't recognize the resulting wrapped video as progresssive. It continues to identify it as 1080i and if I force "progressive" in dominance settings, the clip needs render when imported.

I don't know how to work in progressive with HF11 and FCPX. I have read tons of posts and pages and I have no perfect solution.

Reply

Answer 11

Apr 30, 2016 12:30 PM in response to Harmonica_Lessons

The answer is here: https://mattdavis.pro/2013/12/30/canon-c100-psf-the-fix/

While it says for Canon C100, it applies to all the Canon PsF cameras. This answer is what Tom W mentioned ["Rather than double importing why don't you just change the field dominance of the imported clips in the event."] but failed to explain what he meant or how to do it.

Here is the quick version of how to change Canon PsF footage that shows up in FCPX as interlaced when it should show up as progressive:

1. let FCPX completely finish importing AVCHD before you try to correct the interlace problem.

2. select all your freshly imported Canon PsF clips that show up incorrectly as interlaced.

3. Bring up the Inspector if hidden (Command-4), and select the Info tab. In the bottom left of the Inspector, there’s a pop-up to show different Metadata views. Select Settings.

4. Change Field Dominiance Override to Progressive

That's it.

Reply