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Producing an Indie film

My friend and I are looking into producing a ski film (a.k.a indie film) this year and we have a couple questions, we didn't really know where to post them so we figured since we use most of apples programs to edit our films we would start here. Some of the specifications about our film are that it will probably be no longer than 45 minutes, it will consist of both nordic skiing and alpine skiing, All of the footage will be shot in HD and edited in Final Cut Pro 7, we would only like to print 100 dvds, and we will sell the dvds online from our online store. Below are all of our questions.

1.) Where is a good place to get dvd's printed? we would like to print 100 dvds with custom artwork on the discs and cases along with shrink wrap over all the cases.

2.) What dvd burning program is somewhat cheap but also has plenty of templates to choose from or is idvd professional enough to create the master of your film? We do not have DVD Studio Pro but if thats what most people use when creating films on a mac then we could invest.

3.) Do you have to lincense your music in your film if so how do you go about this? We have done a bit of research on this topic but havn't found any solid post anywhere explaining exactly what you have to go through or if you even have to go through anything seeing that it will not be a film hitting the big screens.

Thanks,

Tyler

Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Dec 29, 2011 12:17 PM

Best reply

David Harbsmeier

Level 7

30,089 points

Posted on Dec 29, 2011 12:54 PM

1.) There are several places available for this (Discmakers.com comes to mind quickly), but for only 100 discs, you may want to consider printing your own with something like this: http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?sku=C11CA45201

2.) Since FCP 7 was only available legally as part of the Final Cut Studio 3 package, you should have DVD Studio Pro as well since it was also part of that package.

3.) For smaller productions, most people use "buy out" music. Essentailly, you pay a one-time incensing fee and are allowed to use their music in film/video and radio productions. Some licenses will include both sync and mechanical rights, while others may require separate licensing for each. There are many production music libraries available online: http://tinyurl.com/bs3mfnz If you want to use a normal song, you must negotiate the rights with the copyright holder/administrator. It really doesn't matter if your production is not going to be 'hitting the big screen,' proper licensing is still required by law. However, that fact may influence the fee that is charged for the licensing.

-DH

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35 replies

skier1260 Author

Level 1

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Jan 4, 2012 5:41 PM in response to David Harbsmeier

If I follow the website linked below what else comes after applying for a lisence besides paying (http://www.prsformusic.com/users/productionmusic/libraries/libraries_ae/Pages/de fault.aspx)?

At this point I don't feel like I am going to go through licensing a random song I find on youtube.

Jan 5, 2012 5:35 AM in response to skier1260

skier

your going round in circles again!

please listen to the advice from us folks who use production music on a daily basis, here are the steps I recommend you take

do not use music you come across on youtube or found on a CD under your desk - it will be poor technical quality probably not suitable for your use, will be very difficult to find the owner and its very expensive to use if you do it properly

use Production Music, this is music specifically made for use in brouadcast TV, feature films, radio and independant production. It is the simplest way to obtain, use, pay for and licence music in video production.

read the information on the MCPS web site, it will tell you EVERYTHING you will ever need to know:

http://www.prsformusic.com/users/productionmusic/Pages/default.aspx

look through the MCPS list of distributers on this page:

http://www.prsformusic.com/users/productionmusic/libraries/Pages/default.aspx

this is the EMI web site, the largest production library in the world,( as in Abbey Road Studios, the Beatles the London Symphony Orchestry)

http://www1.playkpmmusic.com/pages/category_search/k.cfm?auto

register with the library to be able to download the track
regiter with MCPS to be able to licence and pay
you will recieve the licence in an email with an invoice

(a 30 second track costs around £30-00)

(licencing on line takes about 5 minutes oce youve regitered with MCPS)

but youve got to read fully that MCPS information site

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 20, 2012 2:10 PM in response to Gary Scotland

Alright so Ive bounced around quite a bit in these libraries and have come to the realization that for a ski film these libraries are not very ideal. Unlike most indie films, ski films tend to rely a lot more on music than most other films seeing that each segment of a ski film includes a full song that pretty much writes the theme for the segment to go along too. It seems to me that most of the songs in these libraries are more aimed towards being used for no longer than 30 seconds to a minute. This being the case it would be kind of hard to edit to these songs seeing that they are not meant to draw a theme because there more directed towards altering/emphasising the mood of the movie. I know I described the discussion as an indie film rather than a ski film which may have built an unnecessary bridge that I didn't want to cross but I figured the ski film business is of a minortity when it comes to producing a film with a low budget. That being said I have benfitted a lot from the replies I have recieved but I just don't think the MCPS wesbite is what i'm looking for. So I guess what I am asking is if anybody has gone through the trouble of licensing a song by an artist that isn't underground but also isn't extremely famous, and the steps you went through to recieve the license and how much it costed.

Thanks,

Tyler

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Jan 20, 2012 2:23 PM in response to skier1260

Go find a local unreleased band that has a sound that you like. Talk with them. Convince them that the ski video has marketing potential for them so that they are interested in producing music for you.

This is a win/win situation. You get a soundtrack at below market rates and they get exposure. It's all good.

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 21, 2012 7:16 AM in response to Studio X

We thought about trying to do that but the problem is that we would like a major variety in our movie ranging rap/hip-hop to elctronic music which one band wont be able to produce.

Thanks,

Tyler

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Jan 23, 2012 10:11 AM in response to skier1260

Does anybody have a drawn out plan on how to contact the administrator of a song, like where you go to find there contact information, what is a reasonable price for certain songs, etc?

Thanks,

Tyler

Jan 24, 2012 5:11 AM in response to skier1260

this can be easy or very difficult

easy senario - you want to use a top 40 chart song:

google the song name and artist for the record company

email the company

they email you back next day and request payment of many thousands of £

you cant aford it so your stuck

difficult senario - you hear a song on a web site - you google the song title

but after a month no info found so you wasted a month

use a Production Music Library you search listen and purchase within an hour

its about £1-40 per second for non Broadcast non paying audience fee-ten minutes would be around £840

cant afford any of the above then learn the piano and write your own song?

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Mar 20, 2012 9:24 AM in response to Gary Scotland

I am at the stage in my production of figuring out how to print my DVDs and I have a couple of questions, I am planning on sending in a master to a replication/duplication company to have 100 copies printed with cases.

Questions:

1.) Is there any major difference between duplication and replication of DVD's? the information that I have gathered is that replication is for companies looking to produce thousands and thousands of DVD's where as duplication is for more short run projects that require a couple hundred copies. seeing that I am looking to produce 100 copies I figured this site would be a good way to go http://www.sfvideo.com/ it seems to have a good price and is one of the only sites ive found that lets you place an order under 300 copies.

2.) I have read a bit on printing a master copy of your film and have come to the conclusion that if you are going to replicate mass amounts of DVDs you have to burn to a digital linear tape but if you are doing short run projects you can just burn to a recordable DVD and send it in, is this correct? or do all masters need to be printed to a DLT? or does it just depend on which company you are going through and what they accept? I am going to use Adobe encore to print the DVD.

3.) What type of file should you bring your film into encore in? I am editing with 1280 x720 prores files.

Thanks,

Tyler

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Mar 20, 2012 9:44 AM in response to skier1260

This is a new question. It would be best if you posted it in a new topic.

Apr 1, 2012 8:16 AM in response to skier1260

If you're not copy protecting the dvds, Kunaki.com is pretty reasonable on low volumes.

I always understood that you can only get copy protection on replicated dvds, not duplicated; however, i just looked at a previous link posted in this thread and they claim to provide it with 300+ qtys. Did something change, i don't know about?

Good luck on your project Skier - if i were you i'd start with small label bands looking to get exposure. Seems that your type of production is always what they're looking for - youth exposure. I've heard that once the bands get signed to a larger label, they can come back and 'renegotiate'. Put a clause in your contract.

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Apr 5, 2012 5:27 PM in response to Mark Ahrens

Awesome, thanks for the help. One question remains is there any difference between replication/duplication companies in terms of actual quality of the disc's?

Thanks,

Tyler

Apr 5, 2012 9:49 PM in response to skier1260

Heya Tyler:

Congrats on having your project at the point where you're ready to make and sell DVDs.

There is a huge difference between a replicated DVD and a duplicated DVD.

By replicating, you are creating a DVD-Video disc. A replicated disc is stampled from a "glass master" or "gold master" that is made from the DVD disc image on DLT tape. Anything that has the "DVD-Video" logo has been replicated. The main thing that going with DVD-Video is that just about any DVD player should be able to play the disc. Also, the replicated discs match the master disc perfectly. As long as the master disc is to DVD-Video spec, all of the copies are to DVD-Video spec. Also, if you opt to use CSS encryption or Macrovision, these are availalbe through replication.

By duplicating, you are burning the DVD-Video data structure (the VIDEO_TS folder) to a writable DVD format (DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+R DL). On a side note, as this is not a DVD-Video disc you can't legally use the DVD-Video logo. Since each disc is burned from the source data, there is always the chance of a write errror that will result in a disc that won't play (I find that about 1 in ever 100 burns won't play because of a write error). Furthermore, the DVD format you choose to write to may or may not play in someone's player. Players made since the "DVD-Multi" logo came into effect will play just about anything that starts with DVD; however, there are DVD-Video set top players made from around 1996 or so to 2003 that won't play DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD+R DL at all. Then, there are a few generation of Apple computers that will only play DVD-R and a few generations of Windows computers that will on play DVD+R.

To jump to your prior question about Encore: all DVD-Video streams wind up being 720x480. Your edited master can be 1280x720, but the picture will need to be encoded as an MPEG2 stream prior to multiplexing your DVD-Video data. If your source video is not already MPEG2, DVD Studio Pro and Encore will both convert it before it allows you to build the DVD. I recommend using Compressor (part of Final Cut Pro Studio) at one of the "DVD Best" settings to creat your MPEG2 stream. You'll get great picture quality and have your MPEG2 file ready to go while authoring your DVD.

- Warren

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Apr 6, 2012 6:24 AM in response to Warren Heaton

Awesome thanks Warren, I have looked around and it seems that if you are only printing 100 DVD's (like me) most every company will only let you duplicate them but it seems that replication is the way to go seeing that it seems like it makes each disc way more compatible/reliable. Is there any company that lets you replicate short run projects like mine?

Thanks

Tyler

Apr 6, 2012 8:42 PM in response to skier1260

Hi Tyler:

As it turns out, repliction machines are designed for high capacity output to meet the demand of replicating millions of discs per title. There was a time that a minimum order of 2,000 was unheard of. Even when the operator hits stop when 2,000 discs have been stamped, the machine will crank out another few hundred discs before coming to a complete stop. This shows up as an over-run fee on your invoice. You might order 2,000, but you'll get something like 2,258. Any replicator that is doing a run of just 1,000 discs is running about 2,000, throwing the "extras" away, and selling you the remaining 1,000.

I think Alied Vaughn will do one-offs. You uplaod your DVD-video data, your disc artwork and your box artwork and they'll print one at a time. If I remember correctly, the down side is that they have to handle the order fulfillment.

I think you mentioned using sfvideo? Serveral of my clients use them. They have some good options for environmentally friendly packaging as well as ink for the disc art box art that isn't toxic.

-Warren

skier1260 Author

Level 1

0 points

Apr 7, 2012 8:18 AM in response to Warren Heaton

Thank you very much that clears up a lot, but I still have one other question on a different note. I realized that the field order in Encore is always going to be lower which SD video usually is. I have also heard that if you bring in a video that is upper into Encore, Encore will automatically transcode it to lower and you will lose a lot of quality. If my film is progressive video and I'm converting it from HD to SD in apple's compressor should I just leave the field order as "none (progressive)" or should I make it lower?

Thanks

Tyler

Producing an Indie film