Previous 1 2 3 4 Next 49 Replies Latest reply: Jun 30, 2012 8:16 PM by Barney-15E Go to original post
  • Qyzylqum Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Not sure this is going to help with the problem because of the way it is stated.  After installing Lion I was ready to get rid of it.  After spending time with Apple support and finding somebody who knew something about Lion I got the answer I wanted or needed.  If I understand the problem correctly it has to do with windows showing up that are not wanted or that you cannot sort though and make any sense out of what you are doing.  If that is the case then hopefully this will help.  If the windows pile up on each other like a stack of papers and you don't want that to happen then go to the System Preferences then chose Mouse.  Next chose More Gestures and remove the check marks from any or all the options that are causing you to have a pile up of pages that are the problem.  This will make it so you have to open new windows seperately of in tab form but gets rid of all the open windows.  I sure wish I knew what Apple was thinging when they put this option in as it makes no sense unless you are doing search work for a paper in school etc.  Hope this helps.

  • Sergio Zambrano Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    I didn't buy Lion, but It seems the issue was fixed after some update. The issue about pages not reachable (looping through all the open windows with "command ~" lets some pages out of the loop) hasn't happened in awhile, and the other issue (last seen and current documents swapping positions making very hard to jump to the next unread one) I think I fixed it by NEVER releasing the "command" key, while I read, until I'm sure I want to keep reading or I already did, which is annoying. Then I keep switching until I get the one I want.  I still have to go trhrough all the ones I just read, but at least they don't keep shuffling on top messing my way down to the ones I want to read next.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    I've just re-read this whole thread, and I have to confess I have no idea what any of you are talking about.


    Which is a good thing. I don't have this problem, whatever it is. Alas, nor can I help you solve it if you do, for every post added here just makes it even more unintelligible to me.

  • Sergio Zambrano Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    Think my first language is not english and try again. Your brain might start making sense of this.


    The least annoying issue could be mimic-ed by:

    1) open 5 windows

    2) Loop through them with command~

    3) select a piece of text from each (or just touch the page)

    4)Do nothing, so you can finish faster, but let's assume you did something useful with that page

    5)Try to do the same in each window.


    Note how many commnd~ you had to use to cycle through windows that are stacked as papers BUT the OS ALWAYS bring the last one you interacted with to the front, every time you cycle them.


    A human been, working with more than 2 papers, would pass the current document to the bottom of the stack, not behind the next one (not swapping it with the next line). The idea is to take them off line, to prevent your brain having to deal with it again, before finishing the whole pile.


    In other words, as I probably said tens of times before, the current paper stack only works for 2 sheets, which is not a stack, nor a pile, but… just two papers.


    Nothing to "fix" since "it was designed like that".

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    Sergio Zambrano wrote:


    A human been, working with more than 2 papers, would pass the current document to the bottom of the stack, not behind the next one (not swapping it with the next line).


    If I'm riding a motorbike and want to turn left, I keep my hands still and lean to the left. If I'm driving a car, the same action would be totally inappropriate (as well as ineffective).


    If you want to replace text in 5 documents, you don't mess around in the GUI, you use a batch replacement tool like TextWrangler. If you have five windows open and want to move between them in a different order from the last active one, you use Spaces/Mission Control or an interface that shows them in a list or column view (the built-in navigational tool Finder is ideal for this, but many other apps have similar organizational trees - iTunes, Scrivener, Mail; others like Preview, Adobe, Kindle Reader and so on use navigational thumbnail views).


    The problem is not with the system; it's that you think you're riding a motorbike when you're driving a car.



  • Sergio Zambrano Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)

    I really like analogies, and I understand yours, but you are wrong. You are welcome to figure out another that doesn't fail in the following points. I won't take it as "argument", and I hope you don't either.


    a) If you can "program" a batch, you mot probably can do it in linux, or any command-line system, because you know what a batch is, at least.


    b) If "Apple" products were intended for programmers mainly, I wouldn't be requesting this. I'd be studying linux or any other geeky OS. And then, IF OS X was NOT for general public, It'll still take you less time to copy/paste from 5 websites (The only program I work with many windows with) than setting up "a batch for 5 documents".


    c) Thumbnails are not designed for documents you don't know (open browser windows), but for documents you both a) know the name and its content, 2) it's graphically distinguish-able at that reduced size. Otherwise, it takes more time for you to figure out its content (to decide wether to choose it) than switching windows the annoying way is required now (skipping all the docs you already worked on which were piling up below your frontmost document)


    The main problem here is we are children, we are told we got a "car", to move around as dad's, but instead of batteries, it has pedals. So it's more like "a bike". So we sit, push one of the pedals, and it doesn't move.

    IF WE HAD TOLD, it's like a bike, we wouldn't be complaining, because we KNEW we still have to pedaling.


    In this case, we are told it works as a "stack" of papers, and you even defend it, but it's not.

    If you tell me you work with a pile of papers (not 2-3 pepers. That's NOT a pile but a letter you can find the next page in one look, because one has a header, the other a signature, and the middle one is full of text), then I'd know I'm wrong.


    A stack of papers is something you don't manage as 3 papers. You need extra people, a batch/bin/shelf/grid, computers, a LONG table, a large floor, or something else to deal with it, but mostly if it remains in a "stack", it's because you'll work with it in a secuential manner, and (this is not my opinion) you WONT put the one you just worked with below the next, but at the end of the stack, or just away.


    I agree it work as a stack. We all agree? cool. Now take the document I just worked with to the bottom, or rotate them, never breaking the order in the loop, so I can TELL where it must be. Oops, most of people work with only two docs… well, stop calling "stack" and give me another option that is. The famous Apple "option" key is wasted here, when switching open docs (command alt ~). An extra option is there, waiting in the useless option key, just wasted.


    I use Macs since 1989, and I was used to find "options" for the second most predictable way to do something and I was happy. I just thought like "I wish I can do this extra action or a different way" and including "option" in the key-stroke made me feel Apple listened to me. It just did what I wanted.

    Today, I'm sad to see that they are reduced more and more every day, making the OSs in the computers on the shelf fast and forcefully minimalist, and after the first update slow and still without those options.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    Sergio, I hope we are debating, rather than arguing, or at least if it's an argument it's a civil and grown up one. I'm not sure how I can be "wrong" in that I've never had the problem you experience, and I work with multiple open docs, windows, images all day, every day. So whatever the difference between your opinion and mine, the fact is my workflow includes the kind of scenario you're talking about but doesn't cause me problems.


    So why not? I'm not denying you experience a problem. I'm just saying I don't think of, treat or demand that my computer works like a stack of papers (just as I don't demand my pen works like a computer, or my car like a motorobike and so on). Here are some of the many navigational tools I use to navigate between different 'views' (windows, documents, whatever). Maybe you need to just explore some more of the tools that are available to you.




    Screen Shot 2012-06-27 at 17.52.19.png

    Screen Shot 2012-06-27 at 11.27.40.png

    Screen Shot 2012-06-26 at 23.53.08.png

  • Qyzylqum Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I had this ready to post last night but the site was down.  I believe softwater has given you the best answer you will get.  If you are still unhappy with how it works spend 39$ and call Apple Support.  The following is what I tried to post last night.  Good luck.


    I agree with you.  IMO Tiger was the best version of OS X.  Leopard was OK.  Even Snow Leopard was OK but it had 250 new features if I remember right.  Then they make Lion which adds another 200 new features so you have within a year or so 450 new features to figure out.  Who is going to use them.  I cannot think of one that I liked and had to use my Apple Care to fix the problems that Lion was creating and even the Apple support people don't know what they are doing any more.


    I played around with open windows in Safari and the top one does not always go to the bottom and some of the open windows disappear and some reload when you don't want them to reload.  Using tabs would correct all the problems everybody is having I would think, that way when you were done with something you could get rid of it as you noted.  And it is anybody's guess as to what Mountain Lion will do.  As I understand it Mountain Lion will act much like your iPhone or iPad so what you see will be the same on all three devices or however many you have.


    As for Pages or the like I don't use that program so I don't know if you can make tabs on it or not.  I run Windows 7 Ultimate and Office Pro 2003 on Parallels 7 to do any word processing and I know how they worik.


    I have used some form of an Apple computer since 1983 and Apple seems intent on making their OS worse whereas Microsoft seems intent on making their OS better.


    Something that might help is if you have a mouse that has two buttons you can set it to right click/left click and see some options as to what you can do.  Even there you don't get some of the same options you get from the task bar.


    Lastly I am sorry that I replied to this thread in the first place as I keep getting emails and about it when somebody posts and cannot figure out how to stop them even though I went to the preferences and said don't send any.

  • Sergio Zambrano Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)



    The top window in Safari (as in the rest of the OS) only goes to the bottom when you only have 2 windows.

    In any other case, it just switches places with the 2nd one. After that, the pages start cycling, passing by the ones you already saw first and the rest later, as far as you don't release the command key, because as soon as you do, the cycling is broken and a new front-to-2nd-swapping occurs.


    Also, I noticed in chrome that command ~ skipped windows which didn't finish loading, but it doesn't happen anymore (a white window used to sit there until it finishes reloading).


    Thanks for your answers. I already posted a feature request to include a real window cycling (with no swapping-between-front-and-2nd-window) when using the option key (alt) which has not been assigned currently.


    I'll test a Lion OS in an AppleStore as soon as I can. In the while, if you want to test my issue, just open about 5-7 windows, copy a piece of text from each and paste them in another app.


    If you can do it using a single key-stroke for each copy/paste action, I'll buy Lion

    (Using tabs would work if there was a "jump to next tab" command. Command # doesn't work because you have to "figure out" what tab you are at first to hit the right unconfortable command #)

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    Sergio Zambrano wrote:


    ...if you want to test my issue, just open about 5-7 windows, copy a piece of text from each and paste them in another app.


    If you can do it using a single key-stroke for each copy/paste action...


    This has nothing to do with window switching order, but the fact that the Clipboard only holds one (and the last) item at a time. Get the free app KopyPasta from the App Store. Solves that problem.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    Qyzylqum wrote:


    Lastly I am sorry that I replied to this thread in the first place as I keep getting emails and about it when somebody posts and cannot figure out how to stop them even though I went to the preferences and said don't send any.


    Go to the top of this page, on the right-hand side and click this link:


    Screen Shot 2012-06-28 at 23.37.44.png

  • Qyzylqum Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have seen that white window even in Safari and it has disappeared using Lion.  One of the problems I just noticed is that you all are talking about using key strokes and I use only a few of them and the ones I use are for copy/paste, magnify/unmagnify, one to delete web based iCloud emails all at one time (I have 3 other emails that got in the spam system and Apple won't let you delete specifice accounts any more, and some key strokes for making accent marks like á or ñ otherwise I don't use them.  I still think 450 new features is silly and not practical.  I hope for those who find this stuff useful that Apple fixes the problems in the future.

  • Qyzylqum Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks and I hope you all get what you want from Apple.

  • Sergio Zambrano Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)


    The "copy-from-browser-window-and paste-in-ANOTHER-app" was an EXAMPLE. If the only interaction required was that, I'd probably use some scrapbook or post-it extension for chrome, but it was JUST AN EXAMPLE.


    Since you might have tricks for other actions (including wasting time setting up a batch for only 5 documents), please change the copy/paste action for whatever you DON'T have a trick for, so we can move on with the example. The intention is to "interact" with the page, so the OS resets the switching order and starts swapping the front page with the one behind, shuffling the "stack" and making less predictable (slower) to work with documents (requiring you to read, mind-processing them while switching, which defeats any attempt to speed-up a process a stack is intended for)


    Thanks Qyzylqum.

    I use Macs since MacII, and shortcuts became unified with time (open, save, switch windows, undo, preview, group…) and "option" (alt) used to be the second most expected behavior for any shortcut.

    I hope I can see one here, so the stack stops shuffling with each interaction.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5 (5,370 points)

    What you disparage as "tricks" are attempts to help you solve your problem. Since you're clearly neither interested in a solution nor can you be bothered to even be polite to people taking their own time to help you, you'll have to continue on without me.


    I'm done trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.