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Time Machine Frequent "Start New Backup"

100435 Views 367 Replies Latest reply: Apr 8, 2014 7:35 PM by stevecook3dw RSS
  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,710 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2012 12:49 PM (in response to aschmid)

    aschmid wrote:

    . . .

    There we go. Doesn't even have a NAS but needs to comment.

    I'm simply suggesting a possible workaround to limit the size of network backups, if you can't do that via the NAS itself.  It has worked for a number of people, including some with NASs, but, as noted, it may not work on others.

  • austin_george Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2012 2:50 PM (in response to Pondini)

    Hi,

     

    I'm using a Synology DS212j and a 2012 rMBP, I will change my access to my TM to admin, (from a designated "time machine" user that i am currently using) as i'm having to reset my backups (approx) every week.

     

    I'll report back after a week or so whether ive had to restart my backups under this set-up or not.

     

    I'm also waiting back on a reply from Bartz85 about how he seemes to have solved this issue on a similar set-up to mine.

     

    Hopfully they see thid and get provide some more info?

     

    Thanks,

    Austin

  • aschmid Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Nov 29, 2012 3:13 PM (in response to Pondini)

    Pondini wrote:

     

    aschmid wrote:

    . . .

    There we go. Doesn't even have a NAS but needs to comment.

    I'm simply suggesting a possible workaround to limit the size of network backups, if you can't do that via the NAS itself.  It has worked for a number of people, including some with NASs, but, as noted, it may not work on others.

     

    Yes I know but you do this all the time. You just suggesting some generic information that has actually nothing to do with what is currently discussed. I know you have done an excellent guide but can you please just promote it when it's applicable and not rub it in everybody's face all the time. Especially if a topic is discussed you know nothing about because you don't even have a NAS. Thank you!

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,710 points)
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    Nov 29, 2012 3:27 PM (in response to aschmid)

    You posted that "using the admin user you can't set quota limits!"

     

    I supplied an alternative way to limit the size of the backups in that case.

     

    Sparse bundles are used for all network backups, not just those to a NAS.  That includes Time Capsules, external HDs connected to Time Capsules or Airport Extremes, and shared drives on other Macs.  I've used all those methods in using and beta testing Time Machine, so yes, I do know a bit about network backups.  Three or four years ago I suggested to a NAS user that it might work for him.  He tried it, and it did.  Over the next few days, some other NAS users reported that it worked for them, too.  Since then, I've recommended it to a number of folks -- of the ones that reported back, several said it did work, a few said it didn't.   Thus the recommendation that if you can't do it any other way, it may be worth a try.

  • greenmoss Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 9:22 AM (in response to Pondini)

    Pondini: I don't remember seeing anyone say it yet, so thank you for your guide. It looks like you've put a lot of work into it.

     

    So, I'm posting here because I'm having the same problem as everybody else: "Time Machine must create a new backup for you." My setup:

     

    • two backed-up systems: a 2012 MacBook Pro and a 2008 MacBook (I think)
    • both are running Lion
    • backing up to netatalk 2.2.1 on Linux
    • backups written to a USB-connected encrypted disk

     

    After reading the Pondini site "Possible Causes" section I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe Time Machine network backups are inherently problematic. The sparsebundle "simulated filesystem" appears in my opinion too brittle to be useful.

     

    Given this conclusion, is it possible to force Time Machine to do file-only network backups instead? It already does this for locally-connected Time Machine disks (right? I haven't tried it yet).

     

    If not, I'm probably going to have to give up on Time Machine. Maybe I'll go back to rdiff-backup. Too bad; Time Machine has a great set of features, but the reliability just isn't there.

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,710 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 9:47 AM (in response to greenmoss)

    greenmoss wrote:

     

    Pondini: I don't remember seeing anyone say it yet, so thank you for your guide. It looks like you've put a lot of work into it.

    Thanks very much.  And yes, it's grown quite a bit over the years!

     

     

    • backing up to netatalk 2.2.1 on Linux
    • backups written to a USB-connected encrypted disk

    I'm surprised that works at all.  I don't know exactly what your setup supports, but I strongly doubt it meets all of Apple's criteria. 

     

    See OS X Lion: Disks you can use with Time Machine (not very clearly written), and Time Machine Network Interface Specification.

     

    Officially, Lion doesn't support encrypted network backups at all (but Mountain Lion does).

     

     

    Given this conclusion, is it possible to force Time Machine to do file-only network backups instead?

    If you mean placing the Backups.backupdb folder directly on the network volume, instead of inside a sparse bundle, no.  Apparently the sparse bundle is required so it can be formatted HFS+ on a volume with a different format, that Time Machine can't use. 

     

     

    I'm coming to the conclusion that maybe Time Machine network backups are inherently problematic. The sparsebundle "simulated filesystem" appears in my opinion too brittle to be useful.

     

    Anything done over a network seems to be less reliable than to a directly-connected or internal HD.  Much more so for a wireless connection.  There are just that many more parts and things to go wrong.

     

    And yes, a sparse bundle, while solving one problem, introduces additional conditions.

     

    But when done to a supported destination, with good wireless connections (or Ethernet) and reliable power, the backups do seem pretty reliable.   And there are some folks who back up to unsupported destinations, such as USB drives on Airport Extremes, and say they've had no problems for years. 

     

    However, I learned long ago (the hard way, of course ) never to rely on a single backup, no matter where it is or how it was made.  I always recommend keeping (at least) secondary backups.

     

     

    It already does this for locally-connected Time Machine disks (right? I haven't tried it yet).

    Correct. 

  • dmpogo Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 3, 2012 10:12 AM (in response to greenmoss)

    In a similar situation (though I am using netatalk-2.2.3, no encryption and disks are e-sata) I went for a mixed solution for my wifes Macbook Air:   I do both TimeMachine backups, so that my wife can easily browse through recent versions (but it asks for rebuild once a month or so) and for the long term I do linux server initiated BackupPc backup of user files.

  • Cristinita Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2012 3:30 AM (in response to Folbo)

    Hi guys,

     

    I´ve been following this thread very closely. I have currently a MacBook Pro late 2011,  OS 10.7.5. and run Time Machine in NAS. I used to have a WD MyBook Live, but got the "Start new backup" problem twice, and since I thought it was a disk problem, got the disk sent back to WD support.

     

    Now I have a Lacie Network Drive 2, with up-to-date software, and have the same problem.

     

    I have to admit I´m not a computer pro (I get my way around but specific things get very difficult to me) so I´m having a bit of trouble following up those threads.

     

    But just to sum up, what I´ve understood is:

    - I can try to fix my current backup following garth.org method (http://www.garth.org/archives/2011,08,27,169,fix-time-machine-sparsebundle-nas-b ased-backup-errors.html) Problem with this it´s that it gets a bit technical and I cannot really follow - anyone does know of a more easy-to-follow procedure?

    - If I back up again, better to do it wired - with that I won´t have any problem any more, and it doesn´t seem the bug/issue with backing up over WiFi is solved. In that case, how to tell TM to back up only when wired to NAS?

     

    And of course, if anyone knows any other info that might help be, that´d be great

     

    Thanks!

  • yogix Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2012 4:10 AM (in response to Cristinita)

    Hi Cristinita

     

    I did the backup fix using (http://www.garth.org/archives/2011,08,27,169,fix-time-machine-sparsebundle-nas-b ased-backup-errors.html) and I found it very challenging.

     

    But it was only a temporary fix and the verification problem came back after a week or so.

  • Pondini Level 8 Level 8 (38,710 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 4, 2012 8:43 AM (in response to Cristinita)

    Cristinita wrote:

    . . .

    - If I back up again, better to do it wired - with that I won´t have any problem any more,

    It's less likely (no wireless interference), but not a sure thing.  Some folks get this on Ethernet networks, too.

     

    how to tell TM to back up only when wired to NAS?

    There's no way to do that. 

     

     

    And of course, if anyone knows any other info that might help be, that´d be great

    There are at least couple of other possible causes -- power problems (dips or spikes) at the NAS, and the NAS software not being fully compatible with Time Machine on the version of OSX on your Mac  (for example, a number of NASs that worked well on Snow Leopard needed upgrades to work on Lion -- but some makers didn't make the changes for older models).

  • cicuz Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 7:43 AM (in response to Pondini)

    Hello everyone,

    I'm back after what has surely been a very short time of working status with a thought that has actually been with me for a while: could the problem, at least in my case (Time Capsule) be related to the fact that the thing is not being my router (as it surely wished) but merely joining my wireless LAN?

    I really don't know what to think anymore, and I'm getting quite annoyed by the persistent "thou shalt restart your backup from scratch because I said so" error.

  • aldabergr Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2012 8:58 AM (in response to aldabergr)

    I can now confirm that the HD scan and repair did NOT solve the issue. Got the issue right back today. Back to drawing board Apple, please find a solution to this stupid issue!

     

    /C

  • MBPierre Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2012 1:47 AM (in response to Folbo)

    A combination of

     

    (http://www.garth.org/archives/2011,08,27,169,fix-time-machine-sparsebundle-nas-b ased-backup-errors.html)

     

    +

     

    Resetting the filesystem permissions for the account used to perform TM backups and forcing the permissions down to child objects on the sparsebundles

     

     

    Has thus far, resolved my issues with both an MBP and MacMini backing up to Synology Disk Station over TimeMachine.

     

    My MBP, previously complaining about verifications regularly now goes back to September in backups since applying new permissions.

     

    MacMini - i've only just repaired the sparsebundle using Garth.org and has now continued to backup. Perms were also reset and propogated down.

     

    Will report back if I continue to have this problem, but im optimistic this is resolved.

  • lukasco Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 9, 2012 3:52 AM (in response to MBPierre)

    MBPierre,

     

    Any chance you could type out the exact commands for resetting the file permissions? Would be really helpful as I'm not clear what would need to be done (even after a bit of googling and digging around).

     

    Thanks!

     

    PS: I'm guessing we need to wait at least a month to have any degree of confidence in the solution...since that's the approximate frequency of the failures.

     

    I've been trying Carbon Copy Cloner, which in the end ran into similar (but different) problems, and now CrashPlan, which also struggles to stay attached to the remote disk.

  • lukasco Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 13, 2012 2:28 PM (in response to Folbo)

    This won't help anyone but might trigger some new ideas: it's a discussion about mountain lion and network drives (and all external drives) disconnecting on sleep and fast switching users, and not reconnecting on wake. This *might* be part of the root cause we've all been facing here. http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-1417599.html

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