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Finder quirk: Can not create New Folder in current folder in List View

I've seen a lot of discussion about this going back for years, with a lot of confusion among the "answers", including blaming the end-user for not understanding the Finder. Lion STILL has a a Finder "quirk" regarding "New Folder" when viewed "as List." Here's how to see it:


1. Launch the Finder.

2. Put the Finder into "List View" (View-->as List, or Command-2)

3. Navigate to some nested sub-folder and click on that folder such that it is highlighted in blue.

4. Select "File-->New Folder" (or Shift-Command-N):

5. Notice that the new, "untitled folder" is created at the root level, not as a child of the selected sub-folder.


At best, this is bad user-interface design, as the action does not operate on the thing that is selected in the user interface. At worst, this is a bug, and a long-standing one at that. At the minimum, the behavior is inconsistent with that of the Column View, which always places the newly created folder inside the currently selected one.


Can anyone comment on why Finder operates this way in List View? I contend that at step 4, above, the most obvious interpretation of the user's action is to place the new folder in the selected sub-folder.


Yes, you can name the "untitled folder" as desired and then drag it into previously selected sub-folder. But in a lengthy list of items, this can be unwieldy. Yes, you can just use the Column View.


Is this behavior too "baked in" to Finder's history to correct? Do "too many" existing users actually prefer this behavior in List View?


I'm not really looking for a "correct answer" here, although I'll award points for the most authoritative response as to what Apple's intention is with the software's behavior.


Thanks.

Posted on Feb 7, 2012 8:06 AM

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21 replies

Apr 3, 2017 12:38 PM in response to tgp7

So, I had been following this thread because this had seemed odd/confusing/wrong to me, too. But I just looked at it again, and I think I understand the behavior (I'm on macOS Sierra 10.12.1).


In List View, while a folder that one has single-clicked on, or otherwise navigated to so that it is highlighted, is selected, it is not the current folder. You can see this if you look at the window title - it will show the name of the current folder, not the selected folder (though, interestingly, the path bar at the bottom (if you have that option turned on) will show the path all the way to the selected folder).


If you want to create a subfolder in that selected folder, you can simply double-click the folder or press command-down arrow, which will make that folder the current folder. And then, when you create your subfolder, it will be created right where you want it to.


Also, perhaps this is because the thread began with a different version of macOS than I'm using, but I never found creating a new folder to simply put it in the root folder - I have always found it to be created in whichever folder Finder considers to be the current folder (which is only the root folder if you've just opened the Finder window and you have Finder's default location set to the root folder or have otherwise selected the root folder).


The upshot, for me at least, is that while the behavior noted by the OP would be nice to have, now that I understand that I can simply double-click or command-down arrow to make that folder the current folder, and then create my subfolder right there, this actually doesn't seem to be such a big deal. But I would argue that the claim as indicated in the original post's title, "Finder quirk: Can not create New Folder in current folder in List View", is not correct - it fails to distinguish between a selected folder and the current folder - in my experience, Finder reliably creates new folders in the current folder. The reason that the List View and Column View seem inconsistent is that in List View you need to double-click a folder to make it the current folder, and in Column View a single click on a folder makes it both the selected and the current folder. This discrepancy makes sense given the design of the different views.


tl;dr

It's interesting that when you right-click a folder, there is no "New Folder" option - if there was, then I would expect the behavior that the OP was suggesting should occur. I just booted up a Windows 7 machine I have to see how Windows Explorer works as a point of reference. There is no apples-to-apples comparison there, because Windows does not mix files and folders in a tree view - the most common view that shows the tree view is a pane that displays only the folder hierarchy and a separate pane that shows the files and folders in the currently selected folder in the folder hierarchy pane. But I tried right-clicking a folder in the folder hierarchy which was not the current folder, and it has a "New > Folder" option that will create a new subfolder in that folder without having to make it the active folder, so it has the functionality that the OP and others here have requested.


As to the question of whether this is good UI design, my experience of macOS and its standard/core applications is that they have a mix of well thought out and consistent UI behaviors and unintuitive and inconsistent behaviors, along with a frustrating mix of nice methods to tailor the UI to work the way you want it to right alongside head-shaking gaps in the ability to easily configure behavior (such as easy keyboard shortcuts to do things like navigate the Application and Status menus and call up the context menu for the currently selected item(s), the ability to permanently delete (not send to Trash) files (especially since you cannot atomically delete items that are in the Trash), and the ability to see an application's list of open windows in the order opened rather than alphabetical order). I didn't find the behavior at issue here to be intuitive, and I don't know whether it's consistent with other parts of the GUI, but in the big scheme of things, this actually seems pretty minor, since it's very easy to simply make the selected folder the current folder. Maybe there's a use case I'm missing, and I agree it's a feature that would be nice to have, but this doesn't seem to be such a big deal given that there's an easy keyboard shortcut to enter the selected folder.

Jun 24, 2017 8:41 PM in response to dzarras

So here it is 2017 and the bug is not fixed, and yes this is a blatant bug. The folder is highlighted, I select new folder, and it creates the folder at the same level as the highlight folder. Here's the bug, now maybe Apple can fix it. I'm not holding my breath ... The file:create.folder does not recognize any focus on the right side of the finder screen, only the left side. So if you want to create a folder way way down a folder tree, you need to move that folder to the left of the finder screen and then use file:create.folder. Or just do what I do which is keep a shell script window open and use mkdir.

Feb 7, 2012 12:34 PM in response to dzarras

It'll always do that because the folder window you have open has the focus, exactly as the selected column has the focus in column view. Since you can select multiple nested folders, CMD+SHIPT+N, wouldn't know what to do. That behavior's consistent in column view if you select numerous subfolders and create a new one.

Feb 7, 2012 1:27 PM in response to baltwo

Let's define "focus" (I'm a software developer... maybe you are too?)...


Yes, the window has focus, but within the window, the selected folder(s) has/have focus, too.


I tried to describe the "selected folder" above, as the one being "blue". In the case where that is the only selected folder, that folder has the focus, in that it responds to the arrow keys, (right arrow opens the folder, etc.), keystrokes cause a jump to files within that folder and so on.


In the case of having only one selected folder, isn't it reasonable to assume that the "New Folder" will create a sub-folder as a child of that selected folder??


I completely agree that in the case of multiple selected folders, "New Folder" woudn't know what to do (although the "New Folder with Selection" command then makes sense). In that case, I'd propse that "New Folder" should be disabled.


Denoting a single folder as "current"/"selected" is important visual feedback. I don't see why New Folder would want to ignore that information. From what I can see searching around the web, a lot of users find this behavior annoying and confusing, and I agree with them (just my opinion, I know). But it's an easy fix -- I'm somewhat questioning what the downside of the fix would be... is there a large user community out there that prefers the current behavior?


For what it's worth, some developers refer to "focus problems" as "f*ck us problems" -- with good reason ;-)

Feb 7, 2012 2:58 PM in response to dzarras

dzarras wrote:

Let's define "focus" (I'm a software developer... maybe you are too?)...

No, just an user.

Yes, the window has focus, but within the window, the selected folder(s) has/have focus, too.

But, not as windows, only as objects or elements. That's why it works the way it does. In column view, which I disdain, the column has the focus, acting as a surrogate window.

In the case of having only one selected folder, isn't it reasonable to assume that the "New Folder" will create a sub-folder as a child of that selected folder??

IMO, no, for the already stated reasons. As for filing bug reports or enhancements use Apple's Apple BugReporter or file feedback.

Feb 10, 2012 1:24 PM in response to baltwo

To both baltwo and macjack,


Not to be irrating, but to be really specific, say you had a Folder structure like this (at the Documents level):


Documents

> Events

> Data

> Orders

V Receipts

> 2010

> 2011

V 2012

> AutoCare

> CreditCards

> Food

> Insurance

> School

> Trips

> Writings


If you wanted to add a sub-folder to Documents>Receipts>2012 called 'Medical', would you just click New Folder, type the folder name "Medical", and drag it into place? Seems like a hassle, especially if in reality, the two locations were physically far apart in the Finder.


Also, what if you actually wanted to name that Receipts sub-folder "Data"? Since that already exists within Documents, New Folder would actually not allow you to use that name, even though "Data" would be unique within Receipts.


No need to debate this here... I'm just doing it for completeness, as a reference for others to consider. It's an easy thing for Apple to fix. I'll make the proposal to them.

Dec 5, 2013 7:31 AM in response to dzarras

I know this is an old thread, but I came across it while trying to do the same thing and thought others may be interested in my near-solution. I too find this behavior very annoying. I was able to get close to what I wanted with an Automater Service (details below). Save this service as "New Folder" and then in Finder you can right-click on a folder or file and go to Services > 'New Folder' and you will get a new folder, but in the parent of the folder you right-clicked on (ie: you get a sibling folder, not one under the selected folder). This is not quite what I wanted, but close enough. I usually right-click on a file in the directory (if one exists) to get the desired behavior.


User uploaded file

Mar 2, 2014 4:08 PM in response to dzarras

+1 That this is terrible behavior for such an evolved OS. I'm an IT Project Manager, not a developer. But I'm **** sure I would have sent the developer back the drawing board if this behavior came up in QA. I would think even Apple employees would want this fixed!


Column view is not intuitive, it restricts the amount of information the user can view (no mulitple subfolder paths). Saying this is working as expected is crazy.

Apr 28, 2015 6:50 PM in response to dzarras

I made something similar to alewando's automator workflow a few years ago, but it was too slow on my old Mac so put it aside. Recently started using it again after getting a newer computer and it works really well. Its restricted to be visible only in list view, and when right-clicking on (or when selection is) a single file or folder, and is titled "New Folder Here". And also if that selection is itself a folder then another version of the workflow is also visible titled "New Folder Within".


Read more, or leave comments at http://www.reddit.com/r/osx/comments/3481wh/services_menu_workflow_for_creating_ folder_in/

Download from https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zeo0qld1ag9drzj/AABoAZJwvBoKOaJhp5jbFuKZa?dl=0

Finder quirk: Can not create New Folder in current folder in List View

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