Identifying The Revision number of a Beige G3

you can tell the rev "AKA version" of the mother board by looking at the ATI chip on the mother board

a rev 1 or A logic board will have the ATI Rage II GFX chip on it the rev 2 or B logic board will have a Rage Pro GFX chip. the rev 3 or C will have a Rage Pro or RAGE Pro Turbo.

there is a web site showing what each of the 3 rom chips look like i cant remember i think it is OWC.


im looking for the site that show's what the 3 diffrent rom chips look like but here are the numbers of the roms

* Rev. 1: $77D.40F2
* Rev. 2: $77D.45F1
* Rev. 3: $77D.45F2

ok here is the site with what each rom looks like
there is a drop down box so you can select wich rom to look at and each will show you the numbers some will look the same but you need to look at the numbers on the front and back of the rom chip to really make shure what rom it is

http://eshop.macsales.com/Tech/Load_Page.cfm?page=zifrommainpage.html

and here is the site showing a diffrent version of rom than the standard 3 rev's of rom's

http://www.maccetera.com/news/beigeg3.html

some times you can find out by the speed of the cpu and by the manufacturing date there is a lable on the back showing this info

also you can look on this site for info about the Beige G3's

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_processor/powerpc750.html

On the first 3 generations of the rev a rom there is a SEC sticker 9807, 9819, 9821, wich means the year and the week of build. On the front on the upper left will show 820-0954-01, WRAITH ROM.

Then there is the 4th generation of rev a rom on the back side in the upper right side of the chip it will say LROG434-01 on the front side in the upper left will show 820-0954-01, WRAITH ROM, and on the front middle will show 630-2617, 97407, LROG434.

Then there is the 5th generation or rev a rom you look on the back on the upper right it shows LROG434-02, and on the front side on the upper left will show 820-0954-A, in the front side in the middle will show 600-6387, LROG434, 98064.

On the rev b rom on the front in the upper left shows 820-0954-A, In the front middle shows 600-6589, LROG4341, 98283, and on the reverse side in the upper right shows LROG434-02.

Now on the rev c rom on the front upper left side will show 820-0954-A, on the front middle will show 600-6710, LROG4342, 98302, On the back side in the upper right will show LROG434-03.

i know it is a bit confusing but those are the identifying marks on the rev a, b, c roms the rev a rom had 5 generations wile the rev b and c only had one.

Before the beige G3s began reaching the secondhand market a few years ago, the easiest way to identify the ROM version was by the production date indicated on the back of the case. Units manufactured from 11/97 through 1/98 had a Rev. A, 2/98 through 4/98 had a Rev. B, and 5/98 through 12/98 had a Rev. C ROM. Because many of these computers have changed ownership multiple times by now, there's no guarantee that someone hasn't changed the ROM card - either upgrading or downgrading it. If looking at the card, the production week (SEC) or day-of-year (Sharp) seems to concur with the timeline I've given. The motherboard's graphics chipset is only as good an indicator as the production date, in that the accuracy of either method depends on whether the computer is still in its factory-configured state.

Hello Dave,

You ask 'How can I tell the Revision number of a beige G3.....', and the answer is 'with some difficulty.'

Generally, motherboards shew their part number in the near left corner, sort of between the PCI slots and the on/off switch: 820-0864-A is generally identified as motherboard Rev A or Rev 1; 820-0864-B (very common on early G3 Macs) is generally identified as motherboard Rev B or Rev 2. These are generally found together with ROM chip $77D.40F2 which is generally identified as Rev A or Rev 1. The $77D.40F2 ROM chip I have before me has an Apple p/n 820-0954-01; the 820-0864-B motherboard that I believe it came with has a 1" square chip (thingamabob?) built into the motherboard onto which is silkscreened: ATI 3D Rage II + DVD. Again, this is a common (early) configuration.

Next to that is a lovely G3 DT with a motherboard 820-0991-A (Rev C or Rev 3) with ATI 3D Rage Pro PCI silkscreened onto its nearby chip. It came with a Rev B or Rev 2 ROM chip also carrying the p/n 820-0954-01 (same as the Rev A ROM chip). The two chips appear - if not identical - at least indistinguishable to the eye. The Rev B ROM chip, however, may be identified in the Apple System Profiler as $77D.45F1, as previously noted.

Next to that sits a motherboard 820-0991-B (Rev D or Rev 4) which is associated to a Rev 3 or Rev C ROM (ASP $77D.45F2) chip with the p/n 820-0954-A. The aforesaid ROM chip also appears slightly different, as it has somewhat larger holes to either end to aid in installation/removal. This Rev D/Rev 4 motherboard also has 'ATI Rage Pro Turbo PCI' silkscreened on it, although I have another 820-0991-B board with the older Rage Pro designation. (Somewhere I seem to recall that the chips may be the same - only the silkscreening may be changed).

All of these interchange, by the way.

I don't guarantee any of this is immutable.....I only report what I see.

Anyhow, this is why it's easier and more reliable to look in the Apple System Profiler.

HTH.......Jon

Each and every one of the components in a beige G3, and sometimes fronts and backs of boards independently, carries a revision level. They are mostly independent of each other, and do not make much difference. To justify a revision in most companies, engineers must show that the revision is a genuine improvement, and get other departments to agree and sign off on the change. Unless it is absolutely critical, the new revision is generally phased in when the old parts run out.

The main purpose folks have in asking, "Which Rev?" is to decide whether they can support Master/Slave IDE/ATA drives using two connectors on the same Hard Drive cable under Mac OS 8 or 9. For that purpose, only the code in the ROM is important, and its checksum is the definitive measurement.

The graphics chip is a strong, but not a certain predictor of the ROM chip revision. The other evidence helps infer, but does not determine the ROM chip revision.

Dave,

As the only thingummy on the logic board that says "ATI" is the GPU, then I think you've nailed it.

Also remember to look for that sticker on the back of the case that Frank mentions. It should show processor speed, RAM, and amount of VRAM that the computer had when shipped.

I finally got around to looking at the OWC tech site that Frank linked (thanks, Frank. I'd not seen that before) and it looks like it can be very helpful, especially if the ROM chip has been replaced. This logic board diagram shows where to find the ROM chip should you use the OWC link to compare chip part numbers and other markings.

Here's an Apple KB article that includes all of what's being offered here, plus mentions that all "All-in-One" G3s and the 300mHz and faster desktops and minitowers are Rev 2 or higher.

A

Thanks Jeff,

So it seems that the ATI revision trumps the motherboard revision when it comes to determining the Rev of the machine as a whole.

(from Jon's message above):

"...820-0864-B (very common on early G3 Macs) is generally identified as motherboard Rev B or Rev 2. These are generally found together with ROM chip $77D.40F2 which is generally identified as Rev A or Rev 1.

~Kathleen


Beige G3, MT, 300mhz, Rev.A, model #M6572LLA, RAM=640MB Mac OS 9.2.x WD Raptor 74 GB, SeriTek/1VE2+2 USB card, FW card, ATI mach64_3DU Display card

I'll have to amend the timeline that I indicated earlier in this thread. I should have specified 5/98 (and not 2/98) as the introducton date for the Rev B ROM and Rage Pro graphics chipset. The definitive answer as to installed ROM version lies in the last four alphanumeric characters, regardless of any production date printed on parts, the graphics chipset, or motherboard part number. Because the ASP reported the ROM revision as $77D.40F2, you've got a Rev A card. The other information that you provided (ATI chip: "Rage II + DVD" and Motherboard marked: 820-0864-B) confirms that your G3 has the first-generation hardware components.

Hello Kathleen,

Thanx for quoting me as if I were an expert. I've printed two copies for all of my admirers and another to send to my mum for posting on the refrigerator.

Unless you're a glutton for punishment, don't make something more complicated than it is. What most people mean by referring to their beige G3 Macs as Rev A is that they have a Rev A ROM chip - as reported by the Apple System Profiler.... which is of importance when they go to add a new larger capacity Hard Drive. End of story!

The confusion arises when they stare at the Apple part number printed on the motherboard and see it translated somewhere as a different Rev number than the ASP suggests of their ROM.

....or when they read a post from someone like me who has a half-dozen beige G3 Macs spread out over his computer room and more parts numbers, revision numbers, preferences, and incompatibilities cluttering his mind than any sane man could possibly make sense of.

As Grant says above, most of the different components have different revision numbers, introduced as the production run goes along and improvements are made and new features introduced....and by and large they all get along and don't matter much. An exception is the ROM chip, which is why people refer to its revision number interchangeably with their Mac.

As our revered former leader used to say, " Let me make one thing perfectly clear...." (or was that "perfectly incomprehensible"?

Regards.....Jon

I think the other thing that folks have almost said, but stopped short of saying is, "I've never heard of any hardware distinctions for PCI cards!"

Hi Grant and Dave 2,

I'm sorry I wasn't clearer, (I'm not very tech savvy), but this is the type of Rev version problem that I was coming across in the past when I was looking to install USB and FW PCI cards:

For instance:

Adaptec's USB card:
Adaptec
(click on "Technical Specifications" and under the "System Requirements" you'll see: "Power Macintosh Beige G3 rev. B or later").

Keyspan's USB card"
http://www.keyspan.com/products/usb/u2pci5/
"For use with Rev. B Beige G3 (or greater)"

The ol' OrangeLink's USB/FW card:
http://www.usb-ware.com/orangelink-firewire-usb-2-pci.htm
"Hardware Requirements* Intel Pentium based PC or PowerPC based Macintosh (G3 Rev B or newer)"

And in regard to a different Rev version, there seems to be a problem with the Sonnet Trio PCI card - they apparently don't work with Rev 3 logic boards:
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_trio.html
"††Some Beige Power Macintosh G3 Minitower and Desktop machines (those with a revision 3 logic board)"

Maybe I'm missing something here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, (I still have so much to learn), but sometimes it seems that the difference be a Rev A., Rev B. or Rev. C could make or break the compatibility issue with certain PCI cards(?).

Thank you all for your advice and help (and patience) with this very crazy and confusing topic.

Best regards,
~Kathleen

Beige G3, MT, 300mhz, rev.?, model #M6572LLA, RAM=640MB Mac OS 9.2.x WD Raptor 74 GB, SeriTek/1VE2+2 USB card, FW card, ATI mach64_3DU Display card

the info i linked to is to show people it intirly possable to tell what rev rom it has cause you never really know what it is if you are not allowed to turn it on or has no OS to boot to.

say your at a aution and see a bunch of Beige G3's they have no OS so how can you tell what the rev of rom it has. by compairing all the markings on the rom chip i mean all numbers on the chip then you will know what rom it has. then you can look at the ATI GPU to see what rev the logic board is.

the most confusing rom to identify has to be the diffrent versions of the rev a rom there is at least 3-5 diffrent versions of rev a rom chips.

there is some USB/firewire combo cards that will only work with a rev b rom or rev a rom and wont work on a rev c rom. i think it has to do with the way the rev c rom handles the pci bus. and then there is some combo cards that will only work on a rev b-c rom. the best cards to get are the ones thet use the open host controller or OHC or OHIC i think i cant remember.

If you are running Mac OS9 (or can boot into OS9 if you have OSX), run Apple System Profiler (ASP) from the Apple menu. The first page of the report has a section called "production information" (may have to use the little "expand" arrows to reveal). In that section the ROM Rev code that Frank lists is shown. This ASP check will not work in Classic.

It is important to be booted in OS9, as OSX writes a temporary "soft" ROM rev of $77D.45F6 (or higher) in order to work. It covers the real hardware ROM rev so it can be misleading. Some heavily upgraded Beiges (like mine) may not show any entry for the ROM Rev in ASP-X.

I like using ASP-9 for this instead of looking at the ATI graphics chip. Several years ago, we had a little exercise here in ROM Rev checking, and there were enough computers with replaced ROM chips that the visual ID method was not 100 percent accurate.

Apple also has a KB article on this subject here.

Hi Frank,

Oops--missed that. Never get bifocals.

Still, I think there is the need for a caveat about replaced ROM modules. However, the visual technique gets him very close.

As part of that informal survey I mentioned, some people opened their computers and read the Apple part number off the ROM module, then compared that with the type of GPU and the ASP report. Guess what? There were more than three part numbers.

Golly gosh, this would have been SO easy if they had stuck with three part numbers!

A

Frank McHugh-

That is a Stellar answer! I especially liked the way you included links to those other authorities. You pulled together almost all the information I have seen on this subject.

Your use of white space and tabular presentation made the whole thing more readable.

Nice Job! Keep up the good work!