William R Rudloff

Q: iMac G5 2Ghz won't do a cold startup off the harddrive, but will boot off of CD and then on a restart.

So this is what my iMac has been doing for the past couple of weeks.  When I do a normal startup, the iMac turns on and goes to the gray screen.  After a few minutes longer then it's supposed to boot up, the fans in the iMac run at full speed and the iMac won't go any further on the boot.  I then have to do a hard shut down (I miss the restart button).  I now keep the System Disk in the machine because I then have to start the iMac back up, hold down the C key until the iMac goes through the booting process off the disk.  I can usually then quit off the Disk and do a restart.  And then usually the iMac will boot normally off the harddrive.  Neither Disk Utility nor Disk Warrior 4.1 have found anything wrong when I do the diagnostics.  Any ideas?  I aleady had the power supply replaced within a couple of weeks of getting the machine, so I'm sure it's not that.  Many thanks.

Bill Rudloff

iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.8), G5 20" 2Ghz

Posted on Feb 12, 2012 4:40 PM

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Q: iMac G5 2Ghz won't do a cold startup off the harddrive, but will boot off of CD and then on a restart.

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  • by steve626,

    steve626 steve626 Feb 12, 2012 8:12 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 4 (1,551 points)
    Feb 12, 2012 8:12 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    Two things for you to check:

     

    (1) When you finally are booted up, open System Preferences and look at Startup Disk. Is your internal hard drive selected? If not, select it and see if that has any bearing on the issue.

     

    (2) When you do a cold start, hold down the option key. Does your internal drive come up as an option to boot from?

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 12, 2012 8:33 PM in response to steve626
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 12, 2012 8:33 PM in response to steve626

    The harddrive does show up in the preferences and is selected.  I have noticed if I start up and go to the CD first before the initial hangup from the harddrive, the harddrive doesn't appear in Disk Utility.  But if I let it do the hangup first, restart to the CD, then the hardrive appears in Disk Utility.  I'll hold off holding down the option key until I shut the iMac down for the night and do it in the morning.

    Bill Rudloff

  • by steve626,

    steve626 steve626 Feb 13, 2012 6:31 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 4 (1,551 points)
    Feb 13, 2012 6:31 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    I would also run the Apple Hardware Test suite of diagnostics ...

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 18, 2012 5:55 PM in response to steve626
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 18, 2012 5:55 PM in response to steve626

    Where is the hardware test?  I thinks it's been a long time since I used it.

     

     

    So I had the iMac shutdown overnight.  When I started it up, I held down the option key.  As the startup control screen came up but before the boot drives could load as buttons, it froze and the fans went full tilt.  I then did a hard shutdown and booted off the CD.  WHen I restarted, the computer froze on startup again like before.  After some back & forth on the CD boot, it finally turned over.

     

    A couple of days ago the iMac froze and had to be forced shut off.  I started the iMac and did the option key and the harddrive did show up then.  That's all I have so far.

    Bill

  • by steve626,

    steve626 steve626 Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 4 (1,551 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 12:16 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    The hardware test suite is on a DVD or CD that came with the computer when new. What you have sounds to me like a hardware problem of some sort.

     

    One thing you COULD try is to make a complete backup of all your files (I suggest two backups, one perhaps with Time Machine and the other using SuperDuper or a similar cloning program), then erase and re-format the hard drive, writing zeros to all locations. This is a rather extreme measure with no promise of success, however. (Also I am a little worried that in the midst of formatting the hard drive will act up as it has been.) It is suspicious that your computer sometimes does not recognize the hard drive as a bootable device. Also suspicious that the hard drive doesn't even appear in Disk utility the first time you boot to the CD. This means that the disk is slow to mount or the connection to the computer can be intermittant, or it must get warm before the connection works. That would be consistent with a hardware problem, either the drive being slow to spin up (maybe sticktion or something similar that is indicative of a failing drive) or having an intermittant connection. Either way, I would not rely on this setup for anything critical, e.g. do frequent backups, at least every day and maybe more frequently.

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 20, 2012 12:55 PM in response to steve626
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 12:55 PM in response to steve626

    This is a used iMac, so no discs came with it.   I had to make a copy of the 10.5.6 DVD from work, but there's no hardware disc with that.  I had thought about wiping the drive.  I've used CarbonCopy Cloner before and had no problems with it.  I don't want to use Time Machine as I do not have an external harddrive to dedicate to it.  I've got a 500MB Seagate external partitioned into two.  There is roughly 130GB on each partition I could use so long as Time Machine doesn't hijack them instead of sticking to an allotment.  The iMac harddrive was supposed to be a new drive of 320GB, but I could be remembering wrong.  Guess I could take the back cover off the imac and make sure connections are OK and the capacitors on the motherboard aren't going bad.  Thanks!

  • by steve626,

    steve626 steve626 Feb 20, 2012 6:01 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 4 (1,551 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 6:01 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    I think taking the cover off and trying to check connections will not be productive, but it's certainly something you can try.

     

    The fact that you already had to replace the power supply plus you have these perplexing symptoms makes me wonder if these issues are why the previous owner decided to sell the computer. Well maybe, we'll never know for sure. In any case, it sounds like you can only do a "warm boot" from the internal drive, but never a "cold boot." In other words, you seem to have to boot off something else and only then can boot from the internal? Before you wipe any drives, if you have a good clone of your internal, have you tried booting from the external clone? Trying both warm boots as well as cold boot? Recalling that cold boot doesn't work from the internal, if it works reliably from the external, that indicates a hardware problem with the internal drive or one of its connectors.

     

    Another possibility -- what type of 10.5 DVD did you use to install the operating system on the internal? If it was anything other than a generic 10.5 install disk (or an install disk for your exact model) then you might have a damaged install of the OS which never can cold boot? I'm just thinking out loud here about the possibilities. What I'm thinking is:

     

    (1) hardware problem with internal drive (failing or somehow damaged) or with its connector(s)

    (2) some sort of hardware issue possibly induced during the power supply replacement

    (3) damaged OS install (as I alluded to above) that won't cold boot but will warm boot

    (4) have you tried resetting your PRAM and/or NVRAM (see http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1379 )? The startup hard drive is stored in the PRAM. This can also be rendered problematic if your PRAM battery is run down, wonder if that has been replaced in your Mac recently.

     

    Might be worth looking on ebay for exactly the DVD/CD hardware test disk that came with your EXACT model.

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 20, 2012 7:05 PM in response to steve626
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 7:05 PM in response to steve626

    The iMac was preloaded with 10.5.6, so I assumed what I copied from work was the same retail OS disc.  The iMac has had all the OS upgrades.  The guy was selling them in a bulk sale, so this Mac probably came from a place where it was used constantly for years.  There are some burned in areas on the LCD, but they aren't terribly distracting.  I don't have a clone drive due to not having a dedicated external for that.  Maybe if I have enough left over from my tax return, I'll get another external and use that strictly for backup/external boot device.

     

    I think I found a set of iMac G5 install discs on eBay, but I asked the seller which model of iMac it shipped with.  Would any 2005 iMac discs work, or does it have to be from a 2 GHz 20" model?

     

    I'll try the PRAM reset and see if that works.  Many thanks!

    Bill Rudloff

  • by MGW,

    MGW MGW Feb 20, 2012 7:10 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 7 (27,026 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 7:10 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    No, you really have to either buy a retail copy of Leopard or find install disc from an iMac that is not only from the same vintage iMac but one that is the exact same date of production and even then, the install discs might not work.

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 20, 2012 8:01 PM in response to MGW
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 20, 2012 8:01 PM in response to MGW

    Here's what the sellet said."Hi. Sorry, I should have included this info in the auction. These discs are from a 17" iMac G5 with 1.6GHz CPU. This was the first generation of iMac G5. I am not sure what the compatibility is between the AHT disc and newer models."

     

    So it's a first gen like mine but the smaller model. Does this sound doable?

    Bill Rudloff

  • by noondaywitch,

    noondaywitch noondaywitch Feb 21, 2012 3:49 AM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 6 (8,142 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 3:49 AM in response to William R Rudloff

    No G5 ever shipped with 10.5.x

     

    The grey discs for your early model should be 10.3.5 build 7P35

     

    If you want 10.5.x there's some info here - {this information supplied by TexasMacMan}

     

    Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard installation system requirements

    http://support.apple.com/kb/TA24950

     

    Leopard is no longer available at the Apple Store but may be available by calling Apple Phone Sales @ 1-800-MY-APPLE (1-800-692-7753).

     

    If you can't obtain a retail install DVD from Apple, look on eBay or Google the installer part numbers to possibly find at an on-line store. Here's what to look for:

     

    MB427Z/A  Leopard 10.5.1 install DVD

    MB576Z/A  Leopard 10.5.4 install DVD

    MB021Z/A  Leopard 10.5.6 install DVD (single user)

    MB022Z/A  Leopard 10.5.6 install DVD (5-user family pack)

     

    Installing Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1544

     

    Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard Installation and Setup Guide

    http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/leopard_install-setup.pdf

     

    After you install the base 10.5, download & install the 10.5.8 combo update at http://support.apple.com/downloads/Mac_OS_X_10_5_8_Combo_Update

     

     

    Note; any retail Leopard disc is going to set you back $130 minimum, and most sellers on Amazon MP or eBay would be comfortably in excess of that.

     

    Incidentally, the grey discs are part of the Mac - it's a violation of the licence to sell them seperately from the Mac they came with or to sell the Mac without them.

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Feb 21, 2012 7:36 AM in response to noondaywitch
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Feb 21, 2012 7:36 AM in response to noondaywitch

    I know iMac G5's didn't come with 10.5 since 10.4 was the OS in 2005.  I did state the guy who sold the iMac installed the retail 10.5.6.  The retail disc I copied from work is MC094Z/A.  I would like to get that iMac G5 17" disc set.  The seller said the iMac G5 17" was recylced, therefore the discs are homeless.  It's only a few bucks.  I didn't see one on eBay for a 20" like mine.

     

    I tried resetting the PRAM, but that didn't work.  It did add a different quirk to the cold start freeze up.  I got the Mac face folder on the loading screen.  It wouldn't blink as it froze up, but I remember that means it can't find it's boot drive right away.  After that I restarted to the CD and threw open Disk Utility, and the odd this was the internal drive was showing as a physical drive, but my "partition" that is the bootdrive didn't show up below it like it would when listed properly.

    Bill Rudloff

  • by William R Rudloff,

    William R Rudloff William R Rudloff Mar 14, 2012 11:06 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 14, 2012 11:06 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    So now I have reached the point where it's not booting at all on anything.  Now when I try to boot off the OS disc, I'm getting kernel panics.  Here's one from trying to boot of the CD by holding down the C key.

    photo.JPG

    This is a weird one.  It was a white screen, but it was about the Firmware.  I did not have any other keys pressed other than the C key.

    photo1.jpg

    I tried to type mac-boot but it wouldn't so it seemd to have frozen up after I let off the key.

     

    Even trying holding down Option didn't help as it would either freeze up immediately, or I would at least get the CD, but then I would get a different kernel panic when booting from the CD after doing the Option switch screen.

    photo3.JPG

    There was another time where after the freeze on the holding of the Option key down I let the freeze happen for a bit, then the screen when black like the computer turned off, but then I got a pure white screen.  Nothing popped up and the fans ran on full tilt again, so I did the hard shutdown.

     

    So I'm at a loss now as what is going on.  Is my logic board going to pot?  Is the firmware corrupted?  I don't understand the codes, so hopefully anyone here who does can help transcribe it.  But for the time being, my iMac is out of order.

    Bill Rudloff

    P.S.  I did take the iMac back cover off and dusted it out.  I didn't see any physical signs of anything going bad, but that doesn't mean much.

    P.P.S. Since the images have been reduced, I can email hi-reses to anyone interested.

  • by steve626,

    steve626 steve626 Mar 15, 2012 9:00 PM in response to William R Rudloff
    Level 4 (1,551 points)
    Mar 15, 2012 9:00 PM in response to William R Rudloff

    You've got a very old (2005), second hand Mac which you indicated is wearing out (e.g. screen starting to go) plus second hand DVD boot disks that sound like they are incompatible. (You said you "copied the DVD from work" -- that does not sound like a likely to succeed scenario; also, running Disk Utility from an incompatible boot DVD is like playing with fire.) If they are incompatible, you will NEVER have success in booting from them, and thus might never be able to resolve your hard drive issues, which indicate either hardware broken or a faulty OS install.

     

    The only way to sort this out is to get a set of RETAIL (generic, not machine-specific) 10.5 DVD boot disks (or disk) in good shape. This will likely cost $150 or even more. You may still find you have an unusable computer, but it's hard to tell at this point. If you can boot from the CORRECT DVD, you will then either be able to archive or erase and install a new 10.5 OS, or you may discover hardware problems remain that make the machine unusable.

     

    This is probably not what you want to hear, but if I were you I would take the mahcine to a shop where someone can take the hard drive out and put it into a USB or firewire enclosure. Then you should purchase the best Mac you can afford WITH its original DVD set and hopefully you can recover your files from that drive when you connect it.  I think this 7-yr old Mac will never be a reliable device for you in the future.

     

    If you really want to try a Hail Mary, at this point I can only suggest:

     

    (1) Replace the PRAM battery. This should cost less than $10. (I doubt this will solve your issues, but it might)

    (2) Read this article  http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1417 and try booting into Safe Mode. If that does not help, try booting into single user mode and run the "fsck -fy" command as explained in the above article.

     

    Any serious hardware problem will probably cost more to repair than getting a new Mac and finding the parts will be a real hurdle. Plus they'll just be old, used parts not likely to last very long anyway.

     

    Sorry you're experiencing this. I have a 2005 G5 2 GHz iMac with 10.5 now and it's somehow running just fine, but I bought it new and have been very careful about keeping it clean and up to date. These can be fun machines, these iMacs, and they're historical as well, but a 7-yr old Mac can go at any time. I keep it backed up to both Time Machine and cloned to a separate external drive just in case. I used to have a 2001 iMac which stopped working in 2009 after 8 good years, and I even had a 1994 PowerMac 7100/66 which I recycled in 2005 even though it was still working!

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