Does Shuffle feature really work?

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Level 1

49 points

Does Shuffle feature really work?

So we have an iTunes library with over 2500 songs and we play this every day. We have playlists (each with 100s of songs) and we have Shuffle turned on. iTunes does pick random songs, but it always seems to play the same songs from each artists.

For example: we have multiple albums of certain artists. iTunes hits one song at random and it is cool. However, the next time this artist comes up again, it is this song that gets played. And the time after that and then after that. We have the same song show up 5 or 6 times in a row (not sequential, but the next time that artist appears) from an artist when that artist has 60+ songs in the library.

I thought Shuffle was actually SUPPOSED to be random with ZERO intelligence to it. Meaning assign IDs 1-2500 for each song, randomize out of 2500, and play the corresponding song. This seems to take into account the times played when using Shuffle.

Can someone explains how this feature really works? It most certainly is not RANDOM as stated in other threads.

PowerBook 15 G4 1.5Ghz, Mac OS X (10.4.5), iPod 60GB, 20" Cinema Display

Posted on Feb 22, 2006 3:22 PM

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Answer 1

--JB--

Level 5

4,087 points

Feb 22, 2006 3:38 PM in response to Imanta

Hi Imanta,

What version of iTunes do you have?

To change the randomness of the shuffling feature, try going to iTunes (menu) > Preferences > Playback. You should see, Smart Shuffle with a slider next to it. You can change it to how likely you are going to hear a song from the same artist/album. You can change the Shuffle to Songs, Albums, or Groupings.

I hope that helps,
Jon

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Answer 2

Imanta Author

Level 1

49 points

Feb 23, 2006 11:06 AM in response to --JB--

JB, thanks for the message...

We have tried this but it is not the issue of the next song being the same or by the same artist, but the next time that artist appears their same song is coming up again. This will happen multiple times and seems to happen for all artists. Basically, the same song by that artist is what plays the next time that artist shows up in the mix.

We have switched to throwing up a Party Shuffle every day and that works for now, but I do not think the true Shuffle feature works that well with large libraries.

Version is the latest iTunes...

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Answer 3

Mar 21, 2006 8:24 PM in response to Imanta

The "smart shuffle" uses a predictive algorithm that tries to anticipate what songs you "want to hear". It's highly annoying and after a while it tends to repeat itself. Ideally, there would be a true random setting (each song once, ignore everything else). But Apple is in the business of selling songs on iTunes, not making someone like me happy. (Only vinyl recorded to Mac, store off)

I haven't found a way to tame this beast yet, but it helps to reset the play count on all the songs (CTRL+A and CTRL+click). If you're not attached to this, it takes out one factor in the formula. After a while though, you will notice how the algorithm works its evil.

Of course the second obvious choice is not using the ratings. I only use mine as notes, but those scratchy records with a star that need to be cleaned seem to play more often...

Another trick that might work is to use slight variations on the spelling of an artist or band name. An extra space or note (artist + guest) will reduce the total by artist and make that artist "less appealing" to the alogrithm. Also try keeping the total songs per artist from having a big spread. (50 songs by band X and 45 by band Y is better than 90 songs for X and 10 for Y) This will keep any one artist from popping up too much.

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Answer 4

Mar 21, 2006 9:29 PM in response to Imanta

Hi,

Random number generation on a computer is a whole huge subject in itself, with reams of paper expended on various theories (how do you make something as deterministic as a machine that, at its most basic level, only know two numbers: 0 and 1?). But, in a truly random system, you would get exactly the behavior you describe: some songs play repeatedly, some might not play until all the others have played 10 times.

Here's what I've done to make iTunes not play the same songs shortly after they've been played before:

1. Create a Smart Playlist and call it "Not so recent plays". In the rules popup menus, set it so that it says "Last Played is not in the last 30 days" or whatever length of time seems most suitable. Make sure the "Live Updating" check box is selected. You can add other rules to make it select from a certain playlist. Or choose only high rated songs. Whatever.

2. Now, go to Party Shuffle and choose your "Not so recent plays" playlist from the "Source" menu. iTunes will only play songs that haven't been played for the length of time you set.

charlie

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