Mixing HDV with XDCam

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Level 1

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Mixing HDV with XDCam

Everything has been captured. The original film was shot in HDV ... to which I want to add a bunch of XDCam footage. The show is amost finished (edited on a HDV timeline).

I'm planning to run the whole show through Color for grading at the end, and will be trying to make it look as much like film as possible, or at least trying to get the 'video' look out of the HDV footage.

Wondering what my best options would be?

My first inclination would be to create a ProRes 422 HQ timeline and drop the HDV with the XDCame right into this timeline to output the show as ProRes 422 HQ. The HQ may be overkill I realise.

Just wondering if anyone else might have some ideas...?

Ben

Posted on Feb 23, 2012 10:33 AM

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Answer 1

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Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 10:59 AM in response to Ben Low

Convert to ProRes LT. Keep in mind how crippled HDV is by its 4:2:0 chroma subsampleing and original data rate (3.6 MB/s). LT is a full 10 bit format and will give you plenty of headroom in Color.

You can use Media Manager to make the conversion for material already edited.

Convert the new before importing it into FCP.

------

If you are doubtful about using LT instead of HQ, do a test.

Export a short HDV clip from FCP in LT and the same one in HQ.

Bring them into Color.

Apply the same grade and render them out.

Bring them back into FCP in a ProRes HQ timeline

Put them side by side on your 10 bit capable reference monitor.

• can you see a difference?

Layer the two clips in the timeline with a difference matte.

• can fcp see a difference?

x

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Answer 2

Feb 23, 2012 10:59 AM in response to Ben Low

I'd do a mediamanage of your final sequence to prores. Prores 422 should be more than adequate.

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Answer 3

Ben Low Author

Level 1

104 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:14 AM in response to Studio X

Hi X and Michael,

Thank you guys. Good stuff.

X, sounds like you've done this before. Can YOU see a difference between the ProRes LT and HQ at the end of the line?

And there will be 'some' XDCam EX in there (from a Sony EX3), would that change the equation?

X: "You can use Media Manager to make the conversion for material already edited. Convert the new before importing it into FCP."

Have I got this right?: I should convert the whole show to the ProRes before sending to Color?

Ultimately, I'm trying to get an output (final master) that might slip by a network's mandate for full HD ... given the film itself is quite intriguing, and the shooting very good (despite the format).

B

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Answer 4

Feb 23, 2012 11:22 AM in response to Ben Low

Make sure that your pixel dimensions match. some HD use rectangular pixels and some use square pixels. Probably a good idea to make sure everything matches. How are you going to be delivering the program? Probably want to match those pixels.

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Answer 5

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:32 AM in response to Ben Low

Can YOU see a difference between the ProRes LT and HQ at the end of the line?

No, I can't. But I'm not looking at a grade on a FSI 2460. Even so, when comparing clips using the difference matte, the difference was so subtle, it was almost imperceptable. There is no way it would be visable under normal viewing circumstances.

And there will be 'some' XDCam EX in there (from a Sony EX3), would that change the equation?

No.

Have I got this right?: I should convert the whole show to the ProRes before sending to Color?

Yes. But then again, I never would have editied with native HDV.

I'm trying to get an output (final master) that might slip by a network's mandate for full HD ...

If someone says "full HD", I have no clue what that means. If you have a network spec sheet that says "ProRes 422 HQ", then that is what you deliver. You can do the conversion from LT to HQ for the final using Compressor.

x

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Answer 6

Ben Low Author

Level 1

104 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:34 AM in response to Michael Grenadier

Aha!

Thank you Michael. When I know which network I'll re-master to fit their specs. I think XDCam is square, if I remember right, mmm, now you've got me thinking. And I think HDV might be different. Thus a good reason to convert both to the same format.

Here's a question I could ask you ....

How does one determine whether a particular format (HDV / XDCam et. al.) is square or rectangular pixels?

Ben

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Answer 7

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:40 AM in response to Ben Low

HDV is always 1440x1080. Just look in the FCP Browser or right click on the item in the timeline and select "properties".

x

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Answer 8

Ben Low Author

Level 1

104 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:51 AM in response to Studio X

Hi X,

How does one do the 'quote' thing, I don't even know what it is called.

Have I got this right?: I should convert the whole show to the ProRes before sending to Color?

X: "Yes. But then again, I never would have editied with native HDV."

The first edit was done a long time ago. And was so close to a good edit, that when I came to finish this up it seemed like a logical thing to do (just stay with HDV). You are absolutely right, I should have converted everything before starting to finish this off.

I'm trying to get an output (final master) that might slip by a network's mandate for full HD ...

X: "If someone says "full HD", I have no clue what that means. If you have a network spec sheet that says "ProRes 422 HQ", then that is what you deliver. You can do the conversion from LT to HQ for the final using Compressor."

I haven't been doing TV for a long time; so I'm in a learning curve - some are still asking for tape, some for .mov files on a drive - whatever the codec. I'll be doing the rounds in a week ... and will get the uptodate spec sheets then.

Thanks mucho for your help,

Ben

#

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Answer 9

Ben Low Author

Level 1

104 points

Feb 23, 2012 11:54 AM in response to Studio X

X: "HDV is always 1440x1080. Just look in the FCP Browser or right click on the item in the timeline and select "properties"."

This I know. It's the 'rectangular' verses the 'square' pixels I'm unclear about. Is the pixel count telling me whether or not the pixels are rectangular or square?

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Answer 10

Feb 23, 2012 12:21 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

What I strongly recommend is testing your workflow from soup to nuts before you dive in at the deep end of the pool. Have I mixed the metaphors thoroughly?

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Answer 11

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:30 PM in response to Ben Low

A 16:9 ratio image when displayed in square pixels equals 1920x1080 or 1280x720. Any other pixel count requires a non-square pixel. HDV at 1440x1080, DVCProHD at 960x720 are examples.

Honestly, this is really basic stuff.

x

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Answer 12

Feb 23, 2012 12:34 PM in response to Studio X

it may be basic stuff, but ya gotta learn it sometime. I can remember getting very confused 5 or 6 years ago when I had to output to dvcproHD 720 with material provided to my by an animator with square pixels.

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Answer 13

Ben Low Author

Level 1

104 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:34 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

Hi Michael,

A soupy pool full of eccentrics? Good metaphor I think.

I'm going to finish off the cut in HDV (XDCam slugged in), then convert it to ProRes using the media manager, then take it through Color. Then output:

I just got off the phone with a friend who is currently delivering a series to a network up here in Canada ... he tells me that they want the shows delivered as MPEG-2 files on a hard drive (PC Compatible). He's making his MPEG-2 (HD) files using Compressor. I'm not sure of the exact specs of the MPEG-2 HD; I'm going to get him to send me a copy.

I'll post the specs here when I get them.

All the best,

Ben

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Answer 14

Feb 23, 2012 12:37 PM in response to Ben Low

It's sort of putting the horse before the cart, but yeah, the pixel dimensions are an indication of whether the pixels are square or rectangular. I'm pretty sure you can have prores with varying pixel aspect ratios, but things like HDV, are, I think, always with rectangular pixels.

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Answer 15

Studio X

Level 7

27,229 points

Feb 23, 2012 12:44 PM in response to Michael Grenadier

ProRes is quite accommodating. Square, rectilinear, interlaced, progressive, any audio rates, etc, it doesn't care.

The key thing to remember then when using Compressor is to make sure to set the pixel output of the video to what you need. Don't have it simply pass the existing video size through.

Also, if you are doing a resize (which going from HDV to square pixel is), select BEST under Frame Controls resizing settings. It will take longer but will make a positive difference.

x

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