RE: Mac OS X v10.7 Lion - Updated Advice Please

I hope it holds up. This will be my primary backup drive while I am in the Peace Corps. 1 TB for about $150 USD, plus a rugged case.

I think it's worth pointing out that to install Lion you have to have Snow Leopard.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4949

Similar requirements applied to past upgrades as well.

Also remember that installing Lion via the USB drive does not create a recovery partition.

"When you install OS X Lion using the USB thumb drive, you will not be able to reinstall OS X Lion from Lion Recovery. You will need to use the USB thumb drive to reinstall OS X Lion." - from the Apple store

I think Lion is wonderful and full of great features. 99% of people's complaint's are easily fixable, especially if you do a little research.

It will be recommended/required to go to Lion before Mountin Lion eventually anyway and you've already purchased Lion. It sounds like you've also taken all the normal necessay steps before and upgrade and backed everything up with some redundancy as well.

So, why not?

Autumn

Autumnatic wrote:

It will be recommended/required to go to Lion before Mountin Lion eventually anyway and you've already purchased Lion. It sounds like you've also taken all the normal necessay steps before and upgrade and backed everything up with some redundancy as well.

We don't know that yet. Apple has not publically announced the final system requirements for intalling Mountain Lion.

That is precisely why I said recommended/required. If it isn't a requirement for installing Mountain Lion, I'm sure it will be recommended.

The point is we don't know yet what the minimum requirements will be for installing Mountain Lion. So you making statements like that is simply not accurate. You may be sure, but since Apple has not announced it it is not known.

Autumnatic

Re: RE: Mac OS X v10.7 Lion - Updated Advice Please

Mar 4, 2012 10:43 AM ( in response to DMerz)

I think it's worth pointing out that to install Lion you have to have Snow Leopard.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4949

Only true for those buying Lion from the Mac App Store that started with Snow Leopard, but he has a USB key. He can install Lion on a Snow Leopard partition or on a fresh partition and migrate from a Snow Leopard or even a Leopard (with updated Migration Assistant).

1. I kept my TM backups when changing from Snow Leopard to Lion but the SN backups were faded out and inaccessible when Entering TM, so I erased the drive and started again. (Not surprising, since TM's data could be OS-specific.)

2. I think that a separate bootable external drive for the Lion CCC clone is definitely the way to go. Also, I have another bottable CCC clone of SN. If the Lion installation fails or is unsatisfactory, you can always revert to SN. In fact, I keep my SN permanently on an external CCC clone to run the few apps that will not run in Lion.

4. I guess that you are correct: SW update will probably update in one download (ie., without going through all of .1, .2, .3)

5. How will you transfer all your docs, pictures, music, etc. over to Lion? I did it by accessing my SN clone and simply copying across. However, some applications need to be installed with that app's installer, because some apps put stuff into the OS. Simply copying sometimes does not work, but try it anyway. After copying everything to Lion, It is a good idea to keep your SN clone for a few months, for those things that you missed when transferring across. I had to re-enter and re-setup my email address. Transferring is tedious and takes time.

Good luck!

"So, it sounds like I should make sure I have a current Snow Leopard TM backup separately and start a new Lion TM backup?"

Yes, that would work. However, as I kept a bootable backup of my SN system, I erased the SN Time Machine and started again on the same drive with the new Lion TM.

"Can I use the same external drive for this with having two separate partitions?"

Yes, no problem, but you must allow for your new (Lion) system to grow by allowing extraspace for it. However, it is not very good practice to have both backups on one physical drive, because drive do fail (as I found out a few years ago).

"So, it looks like I would need a separate external HD for a bootable CCC of Snow Leopard and a separate external HD for a bootable CCC of Lion?"

Yes, that is what I have.

"I think one of the guy's who commented said that you need to have your bootable CCC's on seperate external HDs (instead of partitioning one external HD)?"

Yes. Separate drives would be safer.

"I guess a 500GB external HD for the bootable CCC's is adequate?."

Yes, I think so. Mine is that size. However, I have recently been downloading lots of videos from Yaye and other universities - each 25 lectures of 45 minutes (as flv files which were about 350 MB each). This started to fill my CCC clone so I transferred them to DVDs. (It is possible to tell CCC to ignore certain folders when making a backup, by un-ticking them in CCC's list of files.)

"This one gets me scared and I wasn't expecting that.... 😢

I thought that when you upgraded, all the stuff under your home directory stayed intact? The only "third party" SW I have is ClamXav. Everything else is standard Apple that came with the MacBook Pro. I did buy iWork '09 but that's Apple too.

"So, will I really have to manually copy my files over? "

There is an Apple application called "Migration Assistant", and another thing called "Target Mode" where you connect your computer to an old computer to help with downloading (and I think that the "old" computer" can be a CCC clone. But I have never used either of these methods. There are Apple Knowledge Docs describing them.

"And will I need to reinstall iWork? "

I don't know iWork. Some applications simply copy over by just copying them form the old Applications folder to the new. But some (loke Adobe stuff, install things into the OS and need to be installed using the original installer. You could just copyiWork over and see whether it works.

"I was assuming that iPhoto, iTunes etc. where all part of the upgrade?"

Both are. iPhoto was upgraded a few weeks ago to 9.2.3. If an older version comes with your Lion, get the latest from Apple.

Mountain Lion (10.8) will be available (during the Summer or Autumn). You might save yourself a lot of effort by waiting a few months for it (but give it a month on this Discussion Group to see whether it has problems).

When I upgrade to Lion, I would assume "Documents", "Downloads", "Movies", "Music", "Pictures", and "Sites" would stay intact (not be deleted etc.). I realize that "Library" will probably change.

So, is that really not the case and will I have to, for instance, import my whole iTunes library from the Snow Leopard TM backup or CCC?

There are two types of OS upgrade installations: Clean Installation; and Archive and Install. With the first, your system drive is erased and the new OS installed (including the applications and Utilities that come with every OS such as Safari, Mail, DVD Player, QuickTime, iPhoto, iTunes, TextEdit, Disk Utility etc. and default Preferences and similar). Everything else is erased: Documents; iTunes Library; iPhoto library, Applications and Utilities etc., that you have installed separately: Movies, Pictures, Safari Bookmarks, email addresses, System Password, Microsoft Office, Address Book data — your personal things.

I have never used Archive and Install, but I believe that it archives (some or all) of your personal info so that you can get it back. A clean installation scours out everything before installing the new OS, including bugs, dodgy preference files, out-of-date Applications and Utilities. This scouring out is why I have used a Clean Installation since I started on the Mac in 1996.

With a Clean Installation you can save some of your personal data by Exporting it before you install the new OS. For example, Address Book data (address Book > File Export (then Import); Safari bookmarks (Safari > Export Bookmarks (then Import Bookmarks)); Mail mailboxes (Mail > Mailbox > Export Mailbox and Mail > File > Import Mailboxes). Keep a record (perhaps in screengrabs) of your settings for Mail accounts and similar.

You also say:

"I see how "Migration Assistant" is needed when you get a new computer and need to pull over everything from the old one. But I didn't think that one would have to go through all that hassle with an OS X upgrade?"

When upgrading an OS by a dot (eg., OS7.3 to 7.4), you simply run the installer — nothing else changes. Its only when you install a new OS (10.6 to 10.7) that much work is needed to get going again.

SteveKir wrote:

A clean installation scours out everything before installing the new OS, including bugs, dodgy preference files, out-of-date Applications and Utilities. This scouring out is why I have used a Clean Installation since I started on the Mac in 1996.

I have never heard it described in this manner. Everything I've ever read said you lose all existing date. Here's one example: http://osxdaily.com/2011/06/21/mac-os-x-lion-clean-install-explained/.

Back in the Classic days, it would achieve the old System Folder and install a brand new one Mac OS: When and Why to Perform a Clean Installation but I haven't run across an Apple explanation of what it means in OS X.

MadMacs0 wrote:

SteveKir wrote:

A clean installation scours out everything before installing the new OS, including bugs, dodgy preference files, out-of-date Applications and Utilities. This scouring out is why I have used a Clean Installation since I started on the Mac in 1996.

I have never heard it described in this manner. Everything I've ever read said you lose all existing date. Here's one example: http://osxdaily.com/2011/06/21/mac-os-x-lion-clean-install-explained/.

Yes, you do loose all your existing data, in the sense that it is erased when the new OS is installed, and that is the sense in which the OSX Daily page means it. But (as it implies in the words "Only do this if you have a backup made and you are...") if you have made a full backup (using CCC for example) of the old System (or at least a backup of all your personal data such as documents etc. etc.), they are not in fact lost and you can get them back by simply Copying and Pasting. This is consistent with the OSX Daily page that you cited. (I think that the OSX Daily page could be worded more clearly.)

Back in the Classic days, it would achieve the old System Folder and install a brand new one Mac OS: When and Why to Perform a Clean Installation but I haven't run across an Apple explanation of what it means in OS X.

Well, I am most surprised that Apple (in KB/TA25045 that you cited) describes a clean Installation as preserving the old System Folder. I have done many clean installations over the years and there has never been any sign of a "Previous System Folder". (I have just searched for that on my machine, on which I installed Lion last August and re-installed it a month ago, and Spotlight did not find it.

I note that the KB is listed in red as "This article has been archived and is no longer updated by Apple". It refers to the "System Software CD that came with the computer". It is many years since the OS could fit on a CD! Perhaps Apple have changed the definition over the years.

Unless someone posts to the contrary, I will continue to use "Clean" and "Archive and Install" in the way that I first described it. Perhaps some more knowledgeable readers of this thread could explain the Apple use of "Clean" meaning the preservation of the old system folder.