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60i vs PF30 "recorded as 60i"

I have a Canon HFG10 that has among its frame rate settings the usual 60i, and then one called PF30 that says it shoots at "30 frames per second progressive" but that has an asterisk that says this is recorded at 60i. I have taken video at both 60i and this PF30, and they both get imported into final cut pro x at a frame rate of 30 (29.97) interlaced. So what's the point of this PF30? By the way, I am shooting primarily for viewing on computers. Uploading to YouTube. Stuff like that. Any help? Thanks!

Posted on Mar 16, 2012 3:46 PM

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17 replies

Mar 17, 2012 4:19 PM in response to Goldfish

Thanks, Goldfish. I actually just came across this series of article you provided the link to. Part 8 (http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/atepper/story/psf8217s_missing_workflow_p art_8_clipwrap_to_the_rescue/) seemed to address exactly what I was talking about. Tried it out. Got a trial version of ClipWrap, and that appears to be doing the trick. So I have to jump through some hoops, but I have it figured out. My only remaining questions are,


Is it worth it? In other words, is there really a big different in quality between 30 frames progressive and the 30 interlaced?


Will there be a problem mixing this 30 frames progressive with other cameras that can only shoot interlaced? (I will be creating multicam clips with these cameras)

Mar 18, 2012 2:23 AM in response to Thomas Emmerich

Thanks for your reply, Thomas. Yes, I thought about it. But just spent about two hours combing the internet for a clue as to what I should do, and seemed to come across an awful lot of negative posts about 24P. So I am leaning toward 30p, but there is one more problem, and that is one of the four cameras I will be using in this shoot (and incorporating into multicam clips) is a Sony that does not shoot 30P. Everything BUT, it seems. 24P, 60i, 60P. I am wondering if I can just use that at 60i and use it without issue in the multicam clips, or whether I should do 60i with the Sony, and then use JES deinterlacer to deinterlace it. Any advice enthusiastically welcome!

Mar 19, 2012 7:04 PM in response to salty777

I am myself quite new and befuddled, but perhaps I can clarify one small issue. I do not think it is a matter of FCPX "seeing 60i as 30i" (I think you mean 30P here, that is 30 progressive). My Canon camera, and many other Canon cameras I think, have a 30P frame rate setting that says is "recorded as 60i." Problem is, FCPX does not seem to import this as 30P. It imports it as 30 frame rate, but as interlaced, and that is what 60i is (a frame rate of 30, but interlaced and not progressive). The best explanation I have seen about progressive and interlaced is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-JXfyvlPh0


Hope this helps a little.

Mar 26, 2012 10:52 PM in response to Thomas Emmerich

Still mulling over all this. Have some cameras capable of 30p and others that cannot do 30p. See lots of posts that swear shooting at 60i is a thing of the past, and the future is all progressive. Especially for the web, like YouTube, stuff like that. And I'm new to this, so I'm getting dizzy. Question: Can I shoot in 30p with those cameras that can shoot in 30p, and then drop the 60i footage from the other cameras into a FCPX 30p timeline and just let it work its magic. I'm experimenting with this, but it is very time consuming. Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I'm all ears. Thanks in advance.

Mar 27, 2012 2:51 AM in response to EddieT

A lot of consumer camcorder manufacturers have "different" ideas about how to record video. My older Samsung documentation said the same thing -- records in 60i but is supposed to produce 30p. Never really worked out well in FCP7, not to mention that the anamorphic SD footage never translated either. The way I figure it: the camera records 60 interlaced frames per second, but is reformatted with every 2 frames combined (frames blended). The effect is progressive, even if the NLE sees the footage as interlaced. It only matters if you actually can visually detect interlacing when the footage is being played.


I hate a lot of the "nomenclature" for video because it's very distracting. 60i is almost always, technically 59.94i and 60 anything almost always means 59.94 frames per second whether interlaced or progressive, just as 30 anything almost always means 29.97... except... nle's can produce exactly 30 frames per second. It's just easier to say "60" and "30" so we don't have to keep stating the decimal portion. And as for uploading to youtube; doesn't matter... 29.97 or 30, your choice (I use either, but more 29.97 these days because that is the "proper" 30 for video [confused yet?])... but the best results will be with progressive footage.


Why not 1080/60p? 1080/60p is available on some higher end (and/or newer) camcorders/provideo and is not AVCHD format. Most consumer camcorders use some flavor of AVC and only AVC and therefore, 60p is not available (because it is unsupported in the specification.) [lower resolutions like 720 and 480 have 60p support in the AVC spec. Again, it will almost always actually be 59.94p.]


FCPX is a little schizo when it comes to interlaced material. Sometimes you see it, sometimes you don't (depends on project settings.) In general: FCPX will try to conform your video (from 60i) to say: 30p, 25p, 24p, whatever - basically: 60 -> 30 will jam 2 frames into the one (frame blending). If you play your XXi footage in your project and you perceive interlacing? Go to Inspector > Info > (@bottom left of pane select) Settings and adjust the *field dominance override* [in general: "Lower Field first" is *usually* what you should set] to eliminate the interlacing effect.


If your project is progressive, it will export as progressive. If you're developing video for online services like youtube that want "30p", manually set up your projects for 30p (or 29.97p [almost literally splitting hairs here!]) and let FCPX pull the weight for you.


[From what I've read, most consumer cameras shoot at basically one frame rate: 60fps. The files they produce are software engineered in the camera, and for rates less than 30/29.97, the camera does not shoot 24/25p frames per second, but applies a frame reduction scheme from the manufactured 30p from 60i frames... the "cinema" effect (great marketing tool - pure BS)... some people might be sensitive to the frame reduction pattern and think it looks terrible; most won't notice and think it looks "cool". Unless your camera can shoot "true" or "native" 24fps, then all you're getting is a gimmick (IMO)... Anyway: you will get your *best* file quality from the 1080/60i (basically "raw") footage and let FCPX conform it to your project settings. You might also consider shooting 720/60p and letting FCPX upconvert to 1080... the quality is still outstanding and there are no interlacing issues.]

60i vs PF30 "recorded as 60i"

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