how do i know if i have java installed?

If you have Lion installed and did not specifically download and install Java, then you do not have Java installed.

AFAIK, Most Java components are installed by default. What isn't is the Java Runtime Environment. See http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57413258-263/disabling-java-via-the-command -line-in-os-x-is-not-easy/?tag=txt;title and http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57414869-263/how-to-use-java-applets-in-os- x-after-java-2012-003-update/?tag=txt;title for particulars.

baltwo wrote:

AFAIK, Most Java components are installed by default.

Not sure where you learned this, but I have not read that anywhere, including the two articles you referenced. I've been informed by several others in the forum that the Lion installation removes all traces of Java when installed over older systems and there is no sign of it on a virgin Lion Mac (other than the Java Preferences).

It is true that JRE can be controlled separately once installed and the c|net article describes disabling other components.

That is correct prior to Lion. Java is installed with OS X. That only stopped with Lion.

Kappy wrote:

That is correct prior to Lion. Java is installed with OS X. That only stopped with Lion.

Yes, of course, but we are all talking Lion here, are we not?

I think B2 was thinking pre-Lion.

Sometimes it's hard to know what we are talking about at any given time here in the forums. 😉

RL22,

An easy way to tell if Java is installed is to go to your Utilities folder and launch Java Preferences.

I have a dual-boot system. When I do this in Snow Leopard I see:

.

This indicates that Java is installed and displays the versions, which reflect Apple's recent updates. I have unchecked the boxes, which means that Java is disabled, though still "installed."

By contrast, when I launch Java Preferences from my Lion system, I instead see

.

indicating that Java is not installed there at all.

MadMacs0 wrote:

baltwo wrote:

AFAIK, Most Java components are installed by default.

Not sure where you learned this, but I have not read that anywhere, including the two articles you referenced. I've been informed by several others in the forum that the Lion installation removes all traces of Java when installed over older systems and there is no sign of it on a virgin Lion Mac (other than the Java Preferences).

Then, you need to do your own investigations. I just installed Lion onto an empty volume and migrated only my user info. A check inside /System/Library/ reveals a Java folder and inside /System/Library/Frameworks/ reveals three subfolders: JavaFrameEmbedding, JavaScriptCore, and JavaVM. All of these are Java components.

baltwo wrote:

Then, you need to do your own investigations.

If only I could...

I just installed Lion onto an empty volume and migrated only my user info. A check inside /System/Library/ reveals a Java folder and inside /System/Library/Frameworks/ reveals three subfolders: JavaFrameEmbedding, JavaScriptCore, and JavaVM.

Thanks for getting back to us on this.

Now I need to think about why these components don't need to be updated. The CVE must be exclusively in JRE?

Now I need to think about why these components don't need to be updated. The CVE must be exclusively in JRE?

Some of them are updated. Check the install log and you'll see entries for other updated items. Ultimately, peruse the various Java-related bom files located in /var/db/receipts/ for what was put where.

baltwo wrote:

Some of them are updated. Check the install log and you'll see entries for other updated items.

As I hinted before I don't have access to a Lion Mac at the moment, but right after I wrote my note I downloaded the Update and took a look inside and found the same thing. For instance, both the JavaFrameEmbedding and JavaVM Frameworks are updated (JavaScriptCore isn'tJava).

So here's my question. If you don't have JRE installed then Software Update does not offer an update, correct? If those two frameworks (along with a few other assorted Java related files) aren't updated what's the impact? I realize this doesn't open the door to Flashback via the web interface, but would you still be vulnerable to attack by some other means that use say one of those two frameworks?

MadMacs0 wrote:

If you don't have JRE installed then Software Update does not offer an update, correct?

Don't know. Since the attacks come through browsers, I don't worry about anything else, just disable Java in the browser, if it really bothers you. I need it for Mathematica and other things. IMO, much to do about not much. Just an overhyped threat because Mac OS hasn't had much attention.

RL22 wrote:

Original poster here..

Sorry, we've been talking amongst ourselves here.

but what this is really about is the software update notice for "Flashback malwareremoval tool"

in which it is stated: 'This update is recommended for all Mac users who do not have Java installed.'

Which, first of all, is very un-apple like in terms of user-unfriendliness....how many users know whether they have java installed...

Secondly it doesn't even seem to be correct...so far the advice I've gotten seems to imply if you don't have Java you DON'T need the removal tool...because the malware runs on Java...

Just a bit confused on why your profile says you are running 10.4.8 on a G4 Mac, but let's assume that you are posting to this forum because you are now running Lion.

From your point of view you should run whatever Software Update tells you to run and not worry about trying figure out what you need or don't need. Software update knows whether you have Java installed or not and will deliver the proper update to you.

The advise that not having Java installed means you don't need the tool may be incorrect. If you installed Lion over a previous version of OS X or migrated your home folder from another computer or hard drive, then most of the Flashback malware will still be there. If this is a new machine and you haven't migrated, copied or otherwise moved anything onto it, then you are OK.

The statement that the malware runs on Java is totally incorrect. Java is only used when you are browsing a web page to download Flashback onto your hard drive. All of the components are non-Java executables that run perfectly on an Intel Mac.

baltwo wrote:

Don't know. Since the attacks come through browsers, I don't worry about anything else, just disable Java in the browser, if it really bothers you.

The attacks that we know about come through the browser...I think. The reports I'm reading about the Java version of SabPab or SabPub, depending on the author, haven't specifically said that, although that would be my bet. I'm thinking more about the next wave and how it might be able to take advantage of an unpatched framework.

I need it for Mathematica and other things. IMO, much to do about not much. Just an overhyped threat because Mac OS hasn't had much attention.

And I need it for CrashPlan, but you are right, Apple's getting far too much press about all this.