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  • Gowardo Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    The problem that Apple has completely missed when making iTunes into the monolithic crap that it is today is that:

     

    - Users of any software built to perform simple tasks to simplify life shouldn't need to read pages of instructions for every single thing you want to perform on your device

    - You shouldn't need to sync if you dont want to, whats wrong with a file system like a USB stick? You don't need to control everything Apple, people who don't want to buy content through iTunes will still find ways not to.

    - Apple is only frustrating the less tech-savving of their userbase to death for greed.

    - More obvious ridiculous bits and bobs in iTunes repeated all over again to no point whatsoever as Apple's stance is very clear on this. I.e. "It is our software and we will do whatever the **** we want with it, you can cry and rant as much as you want but we will decide how you should be using your phone, not you"

     

    /Frustrated User numer 109247881057108124710

  • the fiend Level 5 Level 5 (7,885 points)

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - Users of any software built to perform simple tasks to simplify life shouldn't need to read pages of instructions for every single thing you want to perform on your device

    They don't. Despite your thoughts on iTunes, many (I'd say most) people do find it intuitive. Admittedly, the latest update did appear to be designed with the philosphy of let's hide things so that users have to work out how to find them again. But then, that's precisely what this forum is for and a great many posts have been offered, which help users get back the look of the previous version of iTunes.

     

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - You shouldn't need to sync if you dont want to, whats wrong with a file system like a USB stick?

    You don't have to but surely, using Sync, to synchronise the content between the iPod and iTunes is far easier than manually dragging stuff around. Oh! and before you say it... you can decide what goes onto your iPod - at every stage. You simply have to take a bit of time to experiment with iTunes so that you know how to do it, or ask (preferably politely) here. Perhaps you should look up the defintion of synchronise (or synchronize).

     

    The whole purpose of Sync is to allow iTunes to do the housework, so you don't have to. Do you like housework?

     

    To be honest, I don't quite understand you reference to a USB stick. The point about iTunes is that it manages files by grouping them together when required, such as,"put all the songs on an album into one folder. One folder for each album". Why is that complicated and why does anyone wish to take over the organisation of their music when iTunes does it all for you? It's housework!

     

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - Apple is only frustrating the less tech-savving of their userbase to death for greed.

    Sadly, this forum is littered with users claiming to be tech savvy, or IT geeks, or expert computer users, who appear to have great difficulty in understanding iTunes. Why?

     

    At one point in this thread, the OP, in response to me, made reference to his/her not being a Mac user. In context, it's quite clear that he/she is under the impression that I do use a Mac. Far from it. I'm a PC user. The way to understand iTunes is to learn how to use it instead of trying to make it do whatever another music management programme does.

     

    After all, someone who has used iTunes, and then switches to Windows Media Player for the first time, will have to learn how to use WMP. So why is it different this way round?

  • Gowardo Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Dear the fiend,

     

    I understand your points, but you are speaking from a podium and position of a person who has already undergone the learning process on iTunes, perhaps through various versions of the software, to do what he/she needs.

     

    Consider the following points:

     

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - Users of any software built to perform simple tasks to simplify life shouldn't need to read pages of instructions for every single thing you want to perform on your device

    the fiend wrote:

     

    They don't. Despite your thoughts on iTunes, many (I'd say most) people do find it intuitive. Admittedly, the latest update did appear to be designed with the philosphy of let's hide things so that users have to work out how to find them again. But then, that's precisely what this forum is for and a great many posts have been offered, which help users get back the look of the previous version of iTunes.

     

    Again, you are referring to posts and reading literature to cross that learning gap. I, like many other users, don't WANT to have to read about how to sync my music neatly and/or organise my other types of media in a arguably efficient way. I, like many other users, simply don't have the time (Im not suggesting that you do, no offense intended) to go through a learning process when I have no need for one. Its a shackle. And Im sorry, but I cannot agree that "most" people find it intuitive. That's just your point of view and, by my experience, that is simply not correct.

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - You shouldn't need to sync if you dont want to, whats wrong with a file system like a USB stick?

    the fiend wrote:

     

    You don't have to but surely, using Sync, to synchronise the content between the iPod and iTunes is far easier than manually dragging stuff around. Oh! and before you say it... you can decide what goes onto your iPod - at every stage. You simply have to take a bit of time to experiment with iTunes so that you know how to do it, or ask (preferably politely) here. Perhaps you should look up the defintion of synchronise (or synchronize).

     

    The whole purpose of Sync is to allow iTunes to do the housework, so you don't have to. Do you like housework?

     

    To be honest, I don't quite understand you reference to a USB stick. The point about iTunes is that it manages files by grouping them together when required, such as,"put all the songs on an album into one folder. One folder for each album". Why is that complicated and why does anyone wish to take over the organisation of their music when iTunes does it all for you? It's housework!

     

    I am not arguing that, as you say, using a syncing system between iPod/Pad/Phone can be somewhat (or very) useful, but I am arguing with the inability of the Apple userbase to simply drag and drop a few albums/songs onto their phone from file manager and be the **** done with it. And I realise, as you again say, that the control you can have over iTunes in terms of what it synchronises can be quite detailed, but again, I may not want or need it. I don't want to, as you suggest above, "take of bit of time" to learn how to utilise a software which I see no need for. I simply want to achieve some very basic functionalities without all the crap around it. And I can't. But what annoys me is not that its hard for me to achieve certain things, it angers me that Apple has undergone an active process of limiting certain functionalities on their hardware just so that people would need to use iTunes to sync their media, and I don't think you can argue with that.

     

    The vast majority of people I know would be much happier with a simpler solution because the vast majority of poeple out there simply don't care about any of the other stuff, they just want to add a song or two, maybe even not, but they certainly don't want their hands tied by a software that does not let them use their hardware to their full capabilities or, worse, hinders its functionality by ring-fencing potential with shackles such as iTunes.

     

    To play onto your metaphore, I may not like housework, but I may like my house dirty, or if not dirty, up to my own standards. I bought it, its mine. Why not? I don't need a cleaner to come in and sort things out the way they think best. Actually, if a cleaner came in and tried to start doing housework in my house uncalled, Id probably kick them out and call the police on their ***. Unfortunately I can't call the police about iTunes, but I can certainly rant about it here in the hope that it may change something, although a small hope admittedly.

     


    Gowardo wrote:

     

    - Apple is only frustrating the less tech-savving of their userbase to death for greed.

     

    the fiend wrote:

     

    Sadly, this forum is littered with users claiming to be tech savvy, or IT geeks, or expert computer users, who appear to have great difficulty in understanding iTunes. Why?

     

    At one point in this thread, the OP, in response to me, made reference to his/her not being a Mac user. In context, it's quite clear that he/she is under the impression that I do use a Mac. Far from it. I'm a PC user. The way to understand iTunes is to learn how to use it instead of trying to make it do whatever another music management programme does.

     

    After all, someone who has used iTunes, and then switches to Windows Media Player for the first time, will have to learn how to use WMP. So why is it different this way round?

     

     

    First of all, please don't edit my opinion. That's not very nice. I believe they hinder functionality for greed and you most certainly can't change that. Actually, it really surprises me that its not blatant to all what Apple are doing. Limiting functionality to make sure that users go through iTunes of course makes some less fiesty users give in to it and buy a few albums on the store, maybe get addicted and buy more, multiply that by a few hundred million and you have a considerably revenue stream. That's greed. If you want to label it differently, knock yourself out, but you'd be paraphrasing at best.

     

    Secondly, to answer your question, I don't have difficulty using iTunes, I just don't like the way it's been designed to work with my hardware. And I think a lot of poeple are the same.

     

    Something interesting transpires from your wording though. You say that a lot of users claiming to be tech savvy are apparently having difficulties using iTunes and you wonder why that is... That implies that you agree, at least to an extent, that iTunes does require some tech savvines, which in my opinion completely defeats its purpose to arguably make people's life easier. Not everyone out there is a tecchie. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of Apple's userbase are not tech savvy at all, if you want a high % of tech savvy users, go to Android I would say.

     

    Again, in your second paragraph, you make a statement encouraging users to "learn how to use" iTunes. Im sorry, but we dont want to. Im sure that you can get where we're coming from if you stop for a second and really think about it. You may like iTunes in addition (or to replace) another music management piece of software, but a lot of us don't need a music manager. We just want to drag and drop a few songs and be done with it. **** it, its our songs, our CDs, we bought them. I don't need iTunes to organise them.

     

    Thanks,

     

    G

  • the fiend Level 5 Level 5 (7,885 points)

    Gowardo wrote:

     

     

    And I realise, as you again say, that the control you can have over iTunes in terms of what it synchronises can be quite detailed, but again, I may not want or need it. I don't want to, as you suggest above, "take of bit of time" to learn how to utilise a software which I see no need for. I simply want to achieve some very basic functionalities without all the crap around it.

     

    Perhaps you should have bought a more basic MP3 player then. No one forced you to buy Apple.

     

    Gowardo wrote:

    Something interesting transpires from your wording though. You say that a lot of users claiming to be tech savvy are apparently having difficulties using iTunes and you wonder why that is... That implies that you agree, at least to an extent, that iTunes does require some tech savvines, which in my opinion completely defeats its purpose to arguably make people's life easier.

    No, I don't agree. My point is that posters moan about the difficulty they are having using iTunes, and then tell us that they're tech savvy etc. which seems at odds with their claim that they are techies. All iTunes requires is that users are familiar with using a computer and that they are prepared to play with iTunes (just like a child playing with toys) to find out how to get it to do what they want.

     

    Instead, far too many people focus on what they think iTunes cannot do.

     

    -------------------

     

    It really is simple:

    1. Open iTunes
    2. Insert CD in drive and wait for Gracenote to fill in the album detail. (That's housework - do you want to type in all that information? It's not "on the CD".)
    3. Un-tick any song not wanted in iTunes
    4. Import CD into iTunes (Or, alternatively, you are free to buy MP3s from any other supplier, and add them to your iTunes Library.)
    5. Connect iPod to iTunes
    6. Let Sync complete
    7. It's done.

     

     

    Revising the information:

    1. Decide to change CD information after discovering that the Gracenote entry is wrong
    2. Edit CD information in iTunes Library
    3. Add some (but not all) songs to a particular Playlist as you choose
    4. Un-tick any song that you now decide you don't want on your iPod. (It stays in your Library, should you wish to put it back.)
    5. Connect iPod to iTunes
    6. Let Sync complete
    7. It's done.

     

    What iTunes is doing for you:

    1. Using the existing Windows Music folder (or My Music, depending on which Windows) to store the CDs in a separate folder for each album, making them easy to find if really necessary (which it shouldn't be, for most users).
    2. Creating a detailed database so that you can examine whichever part of the album, artist or genre information that you want.
    3. Providing you with a method of grouping songs together (Playlists), completely independently of their original albums.
    4. Making provision for album artwork, which adds to the user experience.
    5. Provides users with software which makes using a very sophisticated piece of electronics easy. (I've used basic MP3 players that have no dedicated software.)
    6. Provides a Sync facility (look up the word synchronise {or synchronize} in a dictionary) that performs all the necessary work (housework) to copy your Library to the player, and at the same time, retrieves play counts and On-The-Go Playlists created on the player.
    7. Provide an overall product that has enough options to make it customisable for each and every user.

     

    And of course, Apple provide this forum, so that you can consult your fellow users on how to get the best out of the product you puchased. Note that. This forum is to help people get the best out of their Apple purchase. It is not for moaning. To do that, go elsewhere and allow the positive help to stand out.

     

    Why do you find any of this unacceptable?

     

    -------------

     

    Oh! and by the way...

     

    Gowardo wrote:

    ... I can certainly rant about it here in the hope that it may change something, although a small hope admittedly.

     

    Actually, the Terms of Use for this forum (hosted by Apple), to which you agreed when you created your user profile, includes the following:

     

    2. Submissions

    3. Post constructive comments and questions. Unless otherwise noted, your Submission should either be a technical support question or a technical support answer. Constructive feedback about product features is welcome as well. If your Submission contains the phrase "I'm sorry for the rant, but…" you are likely in violation of this policy.

     

     

    Now, make a decision. Learn how to get the best out of both iTunes and your iPod, or buy yourself a more basic MP3 player. It's your choice. But for goodness sake, stop moaning about things that you think iTunes is stopping you doing.

  • Gowardo Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)

    I think we're all done here, you've started defending Apple for the sake of it, with clear disregard of facts

     

    Oh well.

  • the fiend Level 5 Level 5 (7,885 points)

    Gowardo wrote:

     

    ... you've started defending Apple for the sake of it, with clear disregard of facts

    No.

     

    • You come to a forum that is there specifically to help.
    • You moan
    • You get help (in spite of your moaning)
    • You moan about it.

     

    *Give me strength!*

  • royalspirit Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Actually he is right, iTunes to some extent is complicated because one indication of this is that if it still requires you to read a documentation or manual or some form of user guide just to properly use it then it cannot be called simple.

     

    A simple system is easy and intuitive to use even for beginners that even a kid or your grandma can use it right away but for iTunes that is not the case.

     

    Let me ask you a question. Is putting a single mp3 file in your iPhone from your desktop only requires one to two steps such as one drag and drop? Apparently not but Apple could have done that because it can be done but they did not choose that simple way.

     

    Renaming a song should be similar to renaming a file in your Windows Explorer by just right-clicking it inwhich Windows users are accustomed to (there are more Windows users than Mac) but Apple did not implemented it considering that the song list interface in iTunes is similar to file list in Windows Explorer which is a familiar interface for most users. In fact, at first glance it is not easy to tell how to rename the song because when you right-click on it there is no Rename, but there is Delete - is it not suppose that both functions should be together as they belong to the similar family of functions?

     

    One thing I do not like about iTunes is that when you add an mp3 files it does not follow the filename so I have to rename it which is so SLOW...

     

    I am an app developer and programmer and understand some Graphical User Interface design, but I could say iTunes is not well designed from the start by a competent UI designer on a functional level.

     

    Even the name iTunes itself is a misnomer because it functions more than a music player - it is used as a suite to manage iDevices which can contain not only music but apps and other content as well as configuration, backup and restoration functions.

  • skswba Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    It is unbelivably complicated. I have an itunes credit which I cannot use,everytime I try to buy a song Im sent to a page telling me there is a problem with a previous bill. I look at my purchase history and I haven't in fact purchased anything before (which I haven't,it's a brand new iphone). I telephone for help and what I am told? "Oh,that's strange,you haven't registered a credit card?". "No and I'm not bloody likely to either". We will look into it. That was on October 7th. Today is the 26th. They are still 'looking into it'. Meanwhile I cannot get anything on itunes and no apps,not even free one's. ANY advice welcome. Thanks.

  • Rebecca I Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    "I find Mac Crap over complicated Hipster Drivel."

     

    I had to giggle when I read this, so thanks

     

    You are not alone in finding iTunes to be very user UN-friendly.  I work with many different programs, platforms and other software and I have to say I find it to be confusing as well.  While some people are naturally defensive because they happen to get it, not everyone does.  Perhaps just hipsters?

     

    Anyway, while I don't feel it with your vehemence, I do agree with you in theory.

     

    Any program that I need to spend more than 10 minutes (including reading time) just to learn how to transfer a file is complicated by my definition of the word. 

  • judyneric Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I know it's old, but thanks for your post, it helped me solve my syncing problem.

     

    But the solution to my problem also shows how ludicrously uninituitive Itunes is for file management.

     

    I added a new iPod into my iTunes. At first, I opted to only sync certain artists. I synced, and those artists, with all of their songs, synced to my iPod.

     

    I then decided that I would rather only sync select songs from each artist to the iPod. I went through my entire library, checking the songs I wanted to sync. I clicked on the device in iTunes, and selected "Sync only checked songs and videos."

     

    I tried over and over again to sync my newly selected songs, but the songs on the iPod never changed; every song by an artist was still on the iPod, the songs that I did not want stayed on the iPod, and the songs from artists I hadn't selected when I originally synced were not going onto the iPod.

     

    Over and over. Checking my library, making sure I had selected "Sync only checked..."  I kept getting the notification message that said something like that if I did the sync, some of the songs that were on the iPod would no longer be on the iPod.  It didn't matter. The sync would NOT apply to my library selections.

     

    That's when I googled, "itunes is too confusing." And that's what led to the post that showed a screenshot with the option under "Sync Music" of "Selected playlists, artists, albums, and genres."

     

    I had to UNCHECK that option (that I originally selected), or my other selection of "Sync only checked...." was meaningless.

     

    How is that simple? In what universe is that intuitive?  If I tell iTunes in one place to only sync the items I've checked, then WHY is that overridden by a different place in iTunes where it says to sync artists, albums, etc?

     

    This is exactly what is wrong with iTunes: a user shouldn't have to search around to resolve conflicting options. It shouldn't take message boards or manual digging to do something as basic as syncing specific music. It shouldn't offer different options for syncing music in different parts of iTunes, where one option overrides another, and it doesn't notify the user of the conflicting options. It's a joke. A real P.O.S.

     

    iTunes is a poor program. A quality program wouldn't lead to such bafflement among so many people on how to accomplish the simplest of tasks. It needs a serious overhaul.

  • the fiend Level 5 Level 5 (7,885 points)

    judyneric wrote:

     

    iTunes is a poor program. A quality program wouldn't lead to such bafflement among so many people on how to accomplish the simplest of tasks. It needs a serious overhaul.

    Actually, it's a very complex programme, that offers so many options, that we mere mortals are overwhelmed by the choices given to us.

     

    iTunes not without it's issues, foibles and eccentricities - even experienced contributors to these discussions get frustrated buy it sometimes. But overall, iTunes is a very good programme, customisable for each and every one of us.

     

    But given its complexity, perhaps that's the value of this forum - a place where one user can ask another user how to configure iTunes to suit the individual. That makes far more sense than the attempts to undermine both Apple and these discussions.

     

     

    judyneric wrote:

     

    I know it's old, but thanks for your post, it helped me solve my syncing problem.

    Good to hear. That's the point.

  • Lana215 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    You are right!

  • Lana215 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I own a number of apple devices - ipad, iPhone, iPod ....and I love the ease of use and intuitiveness..except for itunes. Android devices make it so much easier to copy your music. I should be able to copy from my iPod to a laptop, from my ipad to an iphone,etc., without having to do cart wheels.  I've spent so much time trying to sync things up and troubleshooting problems, it's ridiculous. Apple has really missed the mark with this.

  • No wizard Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    iTunes is not intuitive.

    I am not a geek and I have struggled with iTunes.

    When I upgraded to the latest incarnation I thought it would be easier --- not!

    Firstly it seems that at one time I could easily remove songs from my iPad without connecting to my laptop.  Not anymore but I stand to be corrected.  Presently I can easily remove songs from iPod by holding and deleting.  No probs.  if I do that with iPad they start to play.  Very annoying because I don't want to hear them. Not a better way of doing things.

    Secondly before the recent incarnation I could find cover art on line and transfer it to albums from collection that I downloaded to my laptop easily.  Gracenotes or whatever it's called could not always provide cover art for my CDs.  Now I have no idea.  It has become something more than I can figure out.  Not a better way of doing things.

     

    I should not have to connect to another computer to do simple things like nuking music I don't like.

    I should be able to connect to my laptop and drag and drop (a wonderful tool) without worrying about synching playlists or whatever.

     

    It does not compute to this none geek why Apple (or whomever) should change something that works well.  Adding extra steps to a process does not make the process better.  As others have mentioned I shouldn't have to read through reams of instructions to relearn a process that, in my view, didn't need improvement.

     

    Perhaps I'm a modern Luddite.

     

    Any advice you can give is most welcome.  Thanks eh.

  • No wizard Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    This No wizard

     

    This is for the person that sent me useful info recently.

    Unfortunately I was in a hurry and only scanned your explanation, thinking I could go back to refer and make notes and then complete the survey.  When returned the info was gone but the survey remained.  I answered the survey, but could not give a positive response the last question, because I didn't get a chance to try out what directions I was given.

    If you could re-respond (new English word :-)) I would like to try what you suggested.

    Thanks eh.