Previous 1 2 3 Next 33 Replies Latest reply: Sep 20, 2012 1:56 AM by cesarpixel Go to original post
  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8

    It appears so. Though since Apple had already repurposed Command+Shift+S as a keyboard shortcut for Duplicate, it now takes four keys to do a Save As. That may still be relegated to only the apps Apple develops. I would imagine most third party apps will still use Command+Shift+S for Save As. Especially those which ignore the whole Autosave/Versions function, such as everything from Adobe.

     

    The thought I have on it, is will it work like Save As used to? For instance, you have a document open and choose Save As. The way it has worked for the last 2+ decades, the newly named document takes on any changes you have made while that document was open, and the original is closed with none of the changes applied (or at least no further back than the point you pressed Command+S while working on it).

     

    Will the new Save As simply create a newly named file in a new location while still leaving the original document open? It wouldn't make sense to do that since you'd essentially be duplicating the Duplicate command under a different name, but I haven't tried the Mountain Lion developer's preview to see.

  • Kees de Wit Level 1 Level 1

    If they call it save as..., and it is there in addition to the useless duplicate command, I find it very hard to believe that the 'new' save as.. would replicate the very feature that makes the duplicate command annoying and confusing, namely leaving the original file open, with no indication wether it has already been auto saved/destroyed or not.

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5

    "Save as..." has been brought back in Mountain Lion. It does what it says.

     

    To all those who have been pedantically arguing since July last year that 'save as' is of no use, sorry, but Apple hasn't listened to you...

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8

    I find it very hard to believe that the 'new' save as.. would replicate the very feature that makes the duplicate command annoying and confusing, namely leaving the original file open, with no indication wether it has already been auto saved/destroyed or not.

    I wasn't saying that is what it did, I clearly stated my thought as a question. I just as clearly stated towards the end that it would make no sense for Save As to behave like Duplicate, just under a different name.

     

    It was just a thought since I haven't used any beta of Mountain Lion to see the behavior of Save As in ML first hand, which I also stated.

    "Save as..." has been brought back in Mountain Lion. It does what it says.

    Yay!

  • softwater Level 5 Level 5

    Kurt Lang wrote:

     

    ....and the original is closed with none of the changes applied (or at least no further back than the point you pressed Command+S while working on it).

     

    But that is unlikely to be the case because of the way Autosave/Versions works.

     

    Suppose you have an original that says ''I love". Then you type 'Save As' producing a document with "I love Save As'. If you hit the Save As command, you'll create a new document that contains the text 'I love Save As' and which wont' have any Version history (that makes sense as this is a new document with no history).

     

    However, the original document will be saved via Versions with the text 'I love Save As' as well since that was the last change to that document before you hit 'Save As'. That's how Versions/Autosave works.

     

    The difference, apart from any alternate file extension you might give the 'Save As' version, is the original will have the Version history, allowing you to roll back 'I love Save As' to just 'I love' via the Versions "Star Wars" interface.

     

    Is that different from hitting 'Duplicate' after you type 'Save As'? I don't know. I've never used the Duplicate function.

  • Kurt Lang Level 8 Level 8

    All good questions. Until I get a chance to see how your examples would actually work, it's all guessing. But for me, if I can replace Mountain Lion's versions of TextEdit and Preview with Snow Leopard's versions as I can in Lion, then that's what I'll be doing. I won't use any program that forces me to use Autosave/Versions.

  • Kees de Wit Level 1 Level 1

    I'm sorry, I didn't mean for that to sound like a negative. The lack of don't save has been driving me up the wall, even after many months with Lion. I was mainly just confirming your optimism about Mountain Lion in this regard.

  • cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1

    softwater wrote:

     

    "Save as..." has been brought back in Mountain Lion. It does what it says.

     

     

    I really hope this is true, and it works as always. If it's true, then that's my #1 feature in Mountain Lion, and in fact it's so crucial for me that I'd might consider buying Mountain Lion the first day it's released (it would be the first time I do this, because I always wait for the release of the first update at least, but if they bring "Save As" back, I buy it the first day)

  • ericsiegel01 Level 1 Level 1

    Sigh. I used to open up a document, make a bunch of changes, and "Save As" a new version. For this type of workflow, because of Autosave and Versions, restoring the "Save As" command is meaningless.

     

    Try this out in TextEdit.

     

    1. Create a new TextEdit document and type the word "Original". Save the document and call it DocumentA

     

    2. Close it and reopen it. Change the word "Original" to "Modified". Save As ... DocumentB. Close it.

     

    3. Reopen both documents. The word "Original" is gone. That is because A was autosaved/versioned while you were working on it. So unless you do a "Save As" before you ever start making changes (which is not what you used to have to do) you will have to revert DocumentA to get your "Oiginal" back.

     

    Essentially you still have to do a "Duplicate and Revert" to preserve the "Original". The new command has given us back nothing.

  • cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1

    ericsiegel01 wrote:

     

    Sigh. I used to open up a document, make a bunch of changes, and "Save As" a new version. For this type of workflow, because of Autosave and Versions, restoring the "Save As" command is meaningless.

     

    Try this out in TextEdit.

     

    1. Create a new TextEdit document and type the word "Original". Save the document and call it DocumentA

     

    2. Close it and reopen it. Change the word "Original" to "Modified". Save As ... DocumentB. Close it.

     

    3. Reopen both documents. The word "Original" is gone. That is because A was autosaved/versioned while you were working on it. So unless you do a "Save As" before you ever start making changes (which is not what you used to have to do) you will have to revert DocumentA to get your "Oiginal" back.

     

    Essentially you still have to do a "Duplicate and Revert" to preserve the "Original". The new command has given us back nothing.

     

    I've read that the option to restore to the last saved version in ML (in the arrow next to the file name) now behaves so that if you close the file you're asked if you want to save, and otherwise you lose the changes. Not sure if that's true or not, but if it's true, I think I can work with ML. Otherwise my experience will be like this last year with Lion (using non-Apple apps because I can't stand autosave+versions, and it's been a bad experience, because OSX without Apple apps loses a lot). That's why I've been using my 10.6.8 Macbook Air more than Lion (I even used my Tiger G5 iMac more than Lion... yes, less responsive, but more comfortable than Lion -although less comfortable than SnowLeopard).

  • Eric Siegel Level 1 Level 1

    True but when you "Save As" that option never appears. Your new document is created and the other one disappears all the autosaves/versions included in it.

  • ericsiegel01 Level 1 Level 1

    True but when you "Save As" that option never appears. Your new document is created and the other one disappears all the autosaves/versions included in it.

  • Smartmart Level 2 Level 2

    I've been keeping an eye on this stupid amendment to the Mac OSX operating system.  Despite all the other improvements in Mountain Lion, by removing the basic Save As functionality that I have had as a MAC user for the past 16 years, it basically makes it a less helpful OS.  I need to buy a new macbook pro and have been holding out for the function to be restored.  I don't think that this'll ever happen now and Apple are guilty of not listening to their customers.  Looks like Windows 8 might get a new customer.... and I never thought I'd hear myself say that. Sigh

  • cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1

    Smartmart wrote:

     

    I've been keeping an eye on this stupid amendment to the Mac OSX operating system.  Despite all the other improvements in Mountain Lion, by removing the basic Save As functionality that I have had as a MAC user for the past 16 years, it basically makes it a less helpful OS.  I need to buy a new macbook pro and have been holding out for the function to be restored.  I don't think that this'll ever happen now and Apple are guilty of not listening to their customers.  Looks like Windows 8 might get a new customer.... and I never thought I'd hear myself say that. Sigh

     

    I've been using Lion for a year on a machine at work. The experience was very poor, specially when I needed TextEdit or Preview, as I had to replace it by non-Apple software and, while they were good tools, they weren't as productive/useful/powerful as the Apple counterparts. Also, not only AutoSave+Versions other supposedly "new features" of Lion looked like addons not integrated in the OS... like if they were third-party addons rather than standard built-in features. In general, as said, my experience with Lion has been very poor.

     

    I have Snow Leopard on my Macbook Air, and even Tiger (yes!) on a G5 iMac at home. If you ask me of how powerful/useful the OS is, I'd order them (from less useful to most useful one) as Lion -> Tiger -> SnowLeopard. In other words, for me, Tiger looks as an enhancement for Lion, and Snow Leopard is a real enhancement for Tiger.

     

    I'm saying this because I'm not the kind of dude who thinks the past is always best. Otherwise, I'd be saying Tiger is best than SL, and I'm not saying that. SL is far more advanced, and far more productive than Tiger.

     

    I like to upgrade to new products, but, of course, supposing the new product is more advanced than the previous one, which is not the case for Lion.

     

    I hope I'll be able to feel comfortable with this Mountain Lion "Save As". I say "I hope" because if I cannot stand ML, my days as OSX user might be numbered, and I don't wish so. I don't know if that "decaffeined" SaveAs will please me, but I'll try.

  • cesarpixel Level 1 Level 1

    I just installed ML. Can I force Preview to always duplicate files whenever opening them? That would be the behaviour I need.

     

    Example: If you open (with Preview) the default "about your downloads" pdf file (in the downloads folder), and you make any changes on it, it automatically duplicates the file, without asking you (AFAIK, the file is not locked, but it somehow detects it's a non-modifiable file).

     

    That's what I need, but for all files I open with Preview. Can I do it? How?