8 Replies Latest reply: Apr 9, 2013 2:48 PM by MrHoffman
rsamudrala Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

We have an application that worked fine on Java 6 Update 26. Update 29 broke the application. Even though we have fixed the problem, for people using older versions of the application, there is no recourse, if they have upgraded their OS to 10.7. So, is there a way to install Java 6 Update 26 on Mac OS X 10.7 ?


MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.7), Java 6 Updates 26, 29 and 31
  • MrHoffman Level 6 Level 6 (13,305 points)

    Consider that you're suggesting that the end-user downgrade a third-party language framework to allow an older version of your tool to continue to operate.  That's not the most straightforward solution.  Without intending any offense here, is that approach really in the best interest for your end-users, or is that approach (somewhat) easier for your organization?

     

    If you're going to push out a fix for the problem, then what would be the best one?  For you and your organization, and for your customers?

     

    For instance, a different and potentially better recourse for the problem here might involve establishing a proper software update mechanism or notification mechanism, either within the application or (for those that use it) via the Mac App Store.  That mechanism won't solve the current problem of course, but then the Java downgrade doesn't either (it masks it), and the Java downgrade is itself not without risks. 

     

    Risks?  What might happen with the downgrade?  Java has had security bugs, and the most recent round of Apple OS X 10.6.8 and 10.7.3 patches pushed out new Java updates.  And down-revision versions of Java are vulnerable.

     

    One of the typical mechanisms for self-maintained updates is the Sparkle framework, but I don't know if that's compatible with Java short of JNI.  There's likely a Java-native framework around for this task, too.

     

    This recourse and this approach going forward obviously, as this won't help the existing versions lacking any sort of an update framework or update notification system.   But it can help with future cases of updates or fixes or Java incompatibilities, and it will mean you're not downgrading users into vulnerabilities.  Users can understandably become somewhat cranky about an approach that causes them to become vulnerable to previously-patched Java bugs, after all.

     

    And I certainly don't know the details of why you are considering a Java downgrade here, rather than an application upgrade.  You may well have a good reason for considering this approach.

  • rsamudrala Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well, it is very common that customers will hesitate to update an application version for various reasons. Imagine a client-server application and both client and server applications need to be on the same version. If client OS is upgraded and breaks the client application, we are now required to upgrade the server application version - which is kind of backwards and not acceptable as well.

     

    I understand the due to security vulnerabilities it is not a good idea to use older versions, but we are now stuck between a rock and a hard place with solution :-(

     

    Thanks for your answers.

     

    Ranga

  • rsamudrala Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    That should read

     

    understand that due to security vulnerabilities it is not a good idea to use older versions, but we are now stuck between a rock and a hard place with NO solution :-(

     

    Ranga

  • jhattrick Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hello,

     

    I have a client that just started working remotely and needs to do payroll via her Mac OS X 10.7.5 system via a web browser. The payroll system appears to be ADP/Kronos as far as I can tell. We first tried using Safari and it said the plugin was missing so we downloaded the latest Java and installed. When we tried to run it dumped the following error. (see below)

     

    At this point we decided to try Firefox and rather than a dump we found the message Java 1.6.0_07 required.

     

    At this point we went hunting for an older version of Java and did find one only to be told if was specifically for OS X 10.5.x. My client is running OS X 10.7.5.

     

    I have other clients running Windows that have multiple (older) versions of Java installed including 4, 5 and 6 all on one machine so I'm not sure if this is possible on Mac OS X or not.

     

    Note I am not in charge of the payroll system and have no way of updating that side of things. I may recommend that my client contact her internal Help Desk or revert to using a Windows based system as I know for sure that would be capable of handling these requirements.

     

    Thanks, Jason

     

     

    Java 7 error

     

    Initializing JVM for plug-in

    JVM loading complete

    Adding listener: quickfind.navLabel - com.kronos.wfc.commonapp.genies.applet.quick.QuickFindApplet@45fda6a8 - isPrinciple? true - isHost? false - isDialog? false - isAppletValid? true [1174251176] to com.kronos.wfc.platform.uiframework.applet.baseapplet.AppletEventManager@38ea76e6

    Debug mode: false

    Request made for a theme value with an invalid selector

    Overriding LookAndFeel: Aqua

    Setting LookAndFeel for root: sun.plugin2.main.client.PluginEmbeddedFrame[frame0,0,22,1900x902,invalid,layout=java.awt.BorderLayout,title=,resizable,normal]

    Adding listener: superSummary.appletName - com.kronos.wfc.commonapp.genies.applet.manager.ManagerSummaryApplet@2c72bd07 - isPrinciple? true - isHost? false - isDialog? false - isAppletValid? true [745716999] to com.kronos.wfc.platform.uiframework.applet.baseapplet.AppletEventManager@39ac5a78

    Debug mode: false

    Request made for a theme value with an invalid selector

    Overriding LookAndFeel: Aqua

    Setting LookAndFeel for root: sun.plugin2.main.client.PluginEmbeddedFrame[frame2,61,203,1900x902,invalid,layout=java.awt.BorderLayout,title=,resizable,normal]

  • MrHoffman Level 6 Level 6 (13,305 points)

    Payroll?  As in "real money"?  With a requirement for web access into a deprecated Java version?   That wouldn't be my first choice here, given the recent history of security problems afflicting Java combined with its web start plugin enabled.

     

    While I'd generally suggest starting a new thread for a new question, you'll be better served by starting a discussion more directly with the vendor, as it's clear that their the Java code is broken here. 

     

    I'd expect the vendor already realizes that the Java version you're reporting — Java 6, also known as Java 1.6 — is no longer supported by Oracle, which means there's no certainty and no expectation there will be any new patches or updates, should another problem be found with Java 6.

     

    While it's conceivable you could run an old version of OS X as a VM guest or possibly use an old version booted locally if the particular Mac will support that older version, and then running with an old and insecure version of Java from there, that wouldn't be my choice.  Particularly given we're discussing Real Money here.  I'd see if the vendor has an update to their software available or in progress, and would probably also begin a search for a payroll provider that's not dependent on a vendor-deprecated version of Java.

  • jhattrick Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks MrHoffman,

     

    I absolutely agree with everything you say. I'm all for security and try to suggest the latest and greatest enhancements whenever I can. Unfortunately enterprise application architects are often behind the times more often than not due to a variety of circumstances so in the interim consultants like myself need to find workarounds.

     

    I'm still trying to consider the direction for this issue and think I will recommend the client contact her internal ITS department to pursue the issue further. Since I am an external party it is impossible for me to direct any kind of permanent resolution to this issue.

     

    And yes, it is "real money" so probably best to err on the side of caution with this one!

     

    Thanks, Jason

  • MrHoffman Level 6 Level 6 (13,305 points)

    I'm well aware of enterprise applications, and do work in that space. 

     

    You might try these incantations: "PCI compliance" (if there are credit cards around) or maybe "Payroll on unsupported Java versions" works by itself.

     

    Failing that, then it's VM-guest time or loading-a-down-revision version, as mentioned.

     

    Do make sure your customer management knows the support status here, too.