Currently Being ModeratedMay 14, 2012 12:48 PM (in response to Frank Caggiano)
I know about that == that's part of the problem. I have let's say 600 images...I can and do delete the really terrible ones before adjustments....but let's say that still leaves me with 300 or so...then I adjust and there are some keepers for sure [so I keep both version and master]. But after adjustments some of them are still not good enough to save -- I mightthen reject some of them or offload them and not totally reject but they'r not the 4 - 5 star keepers. Once an adjustment is made tho, if I X-1-2-3 star it that * does not carry over to the master, which means if I want to delete or offload both the 1-3* version I can't just search for X-3s because that only brings up the adjusted ones not t he Masters to treat the same...
Maybe I'm doing it wrong but that's the reason for a Q for workflow -=
Currently Being ModeratedMay 14, 2012 3:27 PM (in response to Victoria Herring)
If I understand your situation correctly, try rating all the images you don't cull, *before* doing any processing. That way, the version inherits the rating of the master and if it's not any better (and you don't give it a higher rating), your subsequent search and cull by rating works for all!
Currently Being ModeratedMay 14, 2012 4:53 PM (in response to Victoria Herring)
I'm waist-deep in some of my own problems, so can't reply at length (or catch up to that other thread), but I think it would help clarify what the OP is doing if we settle on the nomenclature that the "Master" is a _file_. The only way to see the Master in Aperture is to select an Image and press "m". Every Image, as I understand it, is a _Version_. The very first Image created (when files are imported into the Library, the file becomes a Master and an Image is created) looks identical to the Master, but is actually a Version. Quite correctly, when you "Create New Version from Master" or "Duplicate Version" the newly created Image is named "xxx - Version 2".
Again, as I understand Aperture:
- Master = a file stored on your system that you have imported into an Aperture Library
- Version = a text file stored in your Library that tells Aperture what adjustments to apply to the Master to create the ...
- Image = what you see in the Viewer and the Browser in Aperture.
Thus: Image = Master x Version.
Note that the first Version of every Image is a "null Version" -- it contains NO instructions at all.
Note, too, that throughout the User Manual and elsewhere, "Version" is _often_ used where "Image" is more appropriate. This leads to much confusion.
Victoria: What you keep referring to as a "Master" is actually a Version which makes no adjustments. You don't have to use these or keep them visible. As long as you don't delete the last Version of a Master, the Master is always kept. My suggestion to you is that you stop keeping that null-Version as is. Make whatever adjustments you want to it. When you want to duplicate it, use "Duplicate Version". Then you have two Version, both with adjustments, both with (eventually) ratings that mean something to you, etc. If you want to start with a "fresh" Image, create it using "New Version from Master", and then, as with the duplicated Version, make your adjustments, add your ratings, etc. Delete _any_ of these, any time you want. (I strongly recommend stacking all Versions based on the same Master. Make sure to keep checked "Aperture→Preferences→General→Automatically Stack New Versions"). If you have stacked your Versions, you can easily see that a Version is the last one.
I delay deleting Versions for some time. I do delete all OoF and other garbage immediately after import. Once I've done that, though, I use the "reject" rating to remove Versions from view without deleting them. After some months, when I have completely processed a shoot (for me "Shoot" = "Project" -- imho, this is a very important discipline to keep), I will "archive" the Project. One of my "archive" tasks is to review the rejected Versions, and delete any that I don't want to keep. So my "flow" is
- import a shoot into a newly created Project and delete the unusable Images
- process remaining Images, create new Versions as needed
- reject unwanted Images (a/k/a Versions)
- revisit Project and delete unwanted rejects
- empty Aperture Trash
- empty System Trash
HTH. Sorry to not be able to be more specific at this time.
Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger -- bullets didn't show. Used numbers.Mac OS X (10.7.3), 8 G / 500 G internal / 5 TB external / NEC 2490 / ColorMunki Pho
This is what I do. I may do a couple quick (say 15 seconds worth) of adjustments to photos during the initial compare, select, and rating phase, but mucking around with images that you'll eventually trash isn't a good use of time.
Currently Being ModeratedMay 14, 2012 6:42 PM (in response to Victoria Herring)
You're description of your problem/workflow is still unclear.
(referring to my first response to your post describing Delete master and all versions)
I know about that == that's part of the problem.
How is doing a delete master and all versions part of your problem. In your first post you seem to indicate that you wanted to get rid of everything related to a particular image. This does it.
I have let's say 600 images...I can and do delete the really terrible ones before adjustments....but let's say that still leaves me with 300 or so...then I adjust and there are some keepers for sure [so I keep both version and master]
But after adjustments some of them are still not good enough to save -- I mightthen reject some of them or offload them and not totally reject but they'r not the 4 - 5 star keepers.
Once an adjustment is made tho, if I X-1-2-3 star it that * does not carry over to the master, which means if I want to delete or offload both the 1-3* version I can't just search for X-3s because that only brings up the adjusted ones not t he Masters to treat the same...
And here is where you totally lose me. If you search for 2 star images for example and then select the 2 star image and do a Delete master and all versions the master of this version, this version and any other versions of this master will be deleted from the library.
I don't see what's not treated the same.
If however what you are saying is you want to delete the 2 star version and keep the master and any other versions then just do a delete version. As long as there are other versions of this master in the library the master and those other versions will remain in the library.
Currently Being ModeratedMay 25, 2012 3:14 PM (in response to Frank Caggiano)
All this is helpful...I think the short answer is that I should just go ahead and adjust the 'masters' so that everything is a version and I can then see what is good or not and delete from there...my reason for Q is that each 'master' [unadjusted one] is now these days 20mb - that's lots of space that is taken up needlessly.
I had been doing quick culls first then adjustments then later culls but can see that I'm adding steps to it that are not needed = just trust my instincts and go ahead and do initial adjustments [which I understand to mean adjust the 'master' and make it a 'version'] and then delete or save once I can see whether they're worth worrying about later...thanks for the explanations and workflow...
Currently Being ModeratedMay 25, 2012 3:43 PM (in response to Victoria Herring)
my reason for Q is that each 'master' [unadjusted one] is now these days 20mb - that's lots of space that is taken up needlessly.
Each image in your library is represented by the master image file and at least one version. You are right, the master image file usually needs a lot of space, because this file is kept at the best possible resolution. The versions don't need much space, because they only describe how to render the version from the master image file. You can have many versions without needing much extra space. A version cannot exist without the master. To create the version the master is needed - that is the only image that is ever stored as image in Aperture (neglecting thumbnails and previews) .
So if you like an image and want to keep it, you need the master - once the master is deleted the image is lost.
The master does not take up space needlessly, unless you do not like the image at all and do not want to keep it.
And to be precise - a master never changes - so it does not make sense to mention "[unadjusted one]" - what you do when adjusting is creating new versions of your image from the master.
Currently Being ModeratedMay 25, 2012 7:58 PM (in response to Victoria Herring)
Victoria Herring wrote:
All this is helpful...I think the short answer is that I should just go ahead and adjust the 'masters' ...
Victoria -- I want you to get over this one hurdle -- I think it is holding you back. Your Masters are the files (files!) you import into Aperture. They are never ever ever altered (you cannot adjust a Master). The whole set-up of Aperture is that you give it files, it keeps these unchanged while letting you develop versions through the use of metadata and adjustment tools, and then when you want an image file of one of your adjusted Versions (or even just a copy of the Master) to use in another program or to print, you create that file (to your specifications) by exporting.
Versions occupy very little space and require very little computer overhead (this is brilliant) -- there is no reason not to have as many Versions as you find useful.
You keep your Library from getting bloated the same way you keep any storage area un-bloated: throw out stuff you will never need. When you throw out the last Version of a Master, Aperture will discard the Master as well.
So how do you know which is the last Version? Always Stack all Versions. (This is set at "Aperture➞Preferences➞General➞Always Stack New Versions".) If there is no Stack, that Version is the only one -- the last one -- based on its Master.
This way all Versions based on the same Master always stay together, and you have to knowingly delete the Master.
A general workflow:
- Import files. Aperture calls them "Masters" and stores them where you tell it to.
- For each file, Aperture creates a Version and shows you this Version in a Project.
- Make whatever changes you wish to make: add metadata, add Adjustments.
- Delete metadata and delete Adjustments.
- Make new Versions -- by duplicating existing Versions or from the Master file -- whenever you need to.
- Delete Versions whenever you don't need them (but remember, Versions are tiny compared to your Masters).
- (Note that pressing "Delete" when Versions are selected in an Album only removes them from the Album.)
- When you delete the last Version of a Master, Aperture puts both the Master and the Version in the Aperture Trash
- When you empty the Aperture Trash, Aperture puts the Masters in your System Trash. Any Versions that were in your Aperture Trash are un-recoverable.