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A Few Questions

523 Views 8 Replies Latest reply: Jun 4, 2012 6:52 AM by funky_pat RSS
funky_pat Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
Currently Being Moderated
May 15, 2012 12:48 PM


Sometimes, during or immediately after rendering (i.e. bouncing), the project goes into 'Changed' status (e.g. so if attempting to close the project without saving it, a prompt asks if it should be saved). Whenever this happens, nothing is revealed in the Undo History corresponding with such a change. Nor should there be since no changes should have been made. What does it mean and how can it be prevented?



I noticed that, particularly if some random oscillators are involved, a project can sound slightly different on each play-through. Of course, the project should be played at least once before outputting a render, due to the loading of sounds on the first play-through causing aberrations. But as for the other randomness, what would be recommended for greater consistency in render output?



Curves instead of just straight lines. Possible?



When exporting a project in some formats, an error message may pop up informing that something couldn't be exported for whatever reason. So I hit the OK button - only the message immediately pops up again, and indeed, it pops up after each hit of OK. It seems like nothing else in Logic can be accessed until the error message disappears, even quitting. So it seems that a Force Quit option needs to be used each time this occurs.... Unless, of course, there's a way around the error messages?



Logic Pro, Mac OS X (10.6.8), 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  • Eriksimon Level 6 Level 6 (10,430 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 15, 2012 1:18 PM (in response to funky_pat)

    1) Not everything that is in the project file data is also in the undo list. Think of all actions on the channel strip or track headers, such as soloing, muting or moving pan- send- or volume knobs/faders. Unticking the normalize feature when bouncing may count as such a change.

    But, keeping all that in mind, sometimes a project goes into changed state even though nothing's changed. Well, so be it, it is not annoying enough (for me) to make an issue out of. I'd rather be askled a billion times too many to save, then for it to be forgotten only once. On the saving front, Logic appears to err on the side of caution. Good thing.

    2) That inconsistency has to do with the nature of many soft- and hardware synths and all other audio processing equipment and plugins. Having said that, almost no projerct will sound the same twice, especially if any plugin processing is involved that involves any sort of random generation; which, by its' very nature, never (or very, very rarely) repeats. Over on there are some topics on this; expert Ski explains it very well.

    3) Yes. Use the Automation Curve tool (the white arrow with the little tail) from your tool menu. Or, in arrange, hit "A" for Automation View (zoom in vertically if necessary), press shift-ctrl and your pointer will change into the Automation Curve tool.

    4) Unless you are willing to provide some sort of clue as to what the error messages ar actually saying, there is not much I, or anybody else who is not a psychic, can do.


    5. It is not very handy to alter the content of your message when people are already replying. No, you cannot have some automation off and others on.

  • Vacheto Level 3 Level 3 (640 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 3:29 AM (in response to funky_pat)

    how can the Start position parameter in the Bounce window be made to automatically adapt the actual Start position value of the project

    Set the L/R cycle locators to the start/end places you want to bounce (and activate the cycle - I can not remember that crearly cause I'm away of Logic). Some other DAWs are natively based on this method.

    But then again, I haven't come across a DAW with a perfect undo history yet.

    This is correct. The "Mixing" undo history can not be compared to anything like text editors, piano rolls or other apps. The Mixing is a contilious process controlled by the human creativity etc. For instance, if you want to make  a level fader ramp from say "-10.2dB" to "0db" (which range is equivalent of CC#7 - value 50 - 90) after that you stop for a second and continue the upward ramp - then what the undo history must remember (the whole upward ramp plus the 1sec interruption etc). Technically the undo can be programed to revert by one byte value i.e  90, 89, 88 etc but I guess it is not you want ? Another scenario are so called Mixer Snapshots which can be used as fast undo. The snapshots can be controlled via a single external button using a Program Change or Control change. Logic does not support Mixer Snapshots yet that’s why I developed the Logic Snapshot Console some time ago.


    There is one more workaround of “Mixing” undo and it is called AUTOMATION. The Track Automation is recorded in a special folder named “Automation folder” and you can open it via a key-command for “Automation Event List”. So the automation recording creates history and you can undo it!

    For example, if you want to try some Mixing versions (save your project before that) you can enable the channel strip automation and tweak any parameter. If you are not pleased with that mix you can use undo steps to revert the recorded automation parameter by parameter.

    Hope this will give you some basic idea of that.




    Author of: Logic GUI Deluxe (Free),

    Vox De Bulgaria - s.a.g.e vocal pack for RMX,

    Logic Snapshot Console,

    RMX Power CTRL - Logic Environment Midi editor for Stylus etc.

  • Vacheto Level 3 Level 3 (640 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jun 2, 2012 11:41 AM (in response to funky_pat)

    please consider including basic functionality like volume & panning tweaks in the undo history,

    As I pointed in my previous post it is a continuous processing and it is dependable on the human creativity, so writing any undo history will be a bit little complicated cause the human creativity is not predictable. That’s why I gave an example with making a volume upward ramp, stop for a second after that make a second volume change etc. The undo writing must know what is your idea:

    1. A level upward ramp till the one second interruption.

    2. A level change including the one second pause.

    3. The second upward ramp which is made after the one second pause etc.

    4. Undo by one byte midi value etc.

    5. Fader tweaking time (see below).

    As you see there are lots of undo variations. There is a way of programming and it can be based on the “time” factor.

    Right now I spend lots of time on NI Kontakt scripting (KSP), so I developed something similar which is time based but in my scenario it is not related to the level or parameter changes. I developed dynamic fader labels for the custom KSP UI. The dynamic labels save lots of workspace (EXS parameters use such feature for example). So my programming idea is “time” based. If you tweak a given parameter (fader/knob) the dynamic label appears as a popup value label showing dynamic values like “-6.5dB” etc. If you stop the fader tweaking for say 800ms the dynamic label disappear and revert to a parameter steady label say “LP Filter”. So your idea must be based on some “time” factor but it will not match the human creativity regarding the art of mixing. This is one of the major reasons for any developments. Another programming problem will be getting huge amount of undo history regarding the application resources. For example if you delete a note event in the piano roll or event list it is one undo step. If you make a level ramp from “Inf” to +6db  it will be 128 undo steps (if the programming is value based) etc.

    Hope see what I mean ?




    Author of: Logic GUI Deluxe (Free),

    Vox De Bulgaria - s.a.g.e vocal pack for RMX,

    Logic Snapshot Console,

    RMX Power CTRL - Logic Environment Midi editor for Stylus etc.


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