12 Replies Latest reply: May 23, 2012 4:19 PM by Jonathan Pool
Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

An attempt within iChat to initiate an audio or video chat from an account on talk.google.com to another account on talk.google.com may succeed or fail. In my experience, if the remote account user is connecting to talk.google.com with an iChat client, the attempt succeeds; but, if the remote user is connecting with a Google Talk client on an Android device, the attempt fails. (Attempts at text chats succeed in both cases, but not audio or video chats.) Prior postings by Ralph indicate that this failure is expected. However, the failure is misreported by iChat to the local user. Instead of telling the user that the remote client is incompatible with iChat for audio or video chats, iChat tells the user "[remote user name] is busy in a different chat." That is false. The remote user is not busy in any chat. The local user's goal of understanding the nature of the problem is frustrated by this incorrect information.


MacBook Pro (15-inch Early 2011), Mac OS X (10.7.4)
  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    HI,

     

    In iChat or Message Beta I never see the green Video Or Audio only icons when a Google (Or Jabber) Buddy is not using iChat.

     

    So if they are logged in via a Google Page and using a Web Browser (and the GoogleTalk Plug-in) then they don't show up as being Video capable.

     

    Same is true if a Jabber buddy logs in via a Jabber app such as Psi  or Adium on the Mac or a similar App on a PC.  (These don't show me the icons either)

     

    iChat with an AIM Buddy that does not have a Camera is capable of doing "One Way" video chats but I have not tested this in a Jabber/Google list.

     

    I did look at several Buddies that were On Line and not showing Camera icons in both an AIM Login and Jabber Login lists

    If I highlighted on then the Buddies Menu for the "AIM" one would off one way chats

    The Jabber just seemed to off Video or Audio chats regardless. (even when choosing an Off Line Buddy)

    This seems to lead to some credence in the ability to start Video chats with people that should not be able and then Messages you are getting.

     

     

     


    8:49 PM      Tuesday; May 22, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.7.4),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Yes, there is no video icon when the remote user is connected via Google Talk on an Android device. But iChat still permits the local user to issue the "New chat ..." command, specify a video chat, enter an address, and submit the request. I expect any failure at that point to elicit an appropriate error message that explains the real reason. If I'm told that the recipient is busy, I'll try repeatedly (in vain, it turns out). If I'm told the truth, I'll install a different application that knows how to make the desired connection.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    HI,

     

    I set my Snow Leopard MacBook Pro computer to log in to Google.

     

    I turned Off my Google Account in Messages.

    I then uses a second Jabber account in Messages to highlight myself as Buddy.

     

    The Buddy list icons for Video or Audio chat did not go dark nor were the options active in the Buddies Menu

     

    Jabber Video Chats

     

    I then Logged out of Google on th MacBook Pro.

    Logged in with Psi to several accounts including Google.

    Again the Video iCon in the Messages main Window and the options when Text Chatting to My Google self) appears the same

    Screen Shot 2012-05-23 at 20.09.51
    Uploaded with Skitch!

     


    So then I went to look at what I tried yesterday.

    I have an Jabber ID that is only on the MacBook Pro and in Card for  the MacBook Pro in my Address Book

    This ID have not been authorised and shows up n the Off Line group

    However it has Dark text and will show the Video invite spot being available in the Buddies menu ???

     

    Screen Shot 2012-05-23 at 20.14.42

     

     

    The same is true of the Buddy that shows as refusing me.

     

    I am at a loss to say why this is so.

     

     


    8:22 PM      Wednesday; May 23, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.7.4),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Thanks for all this testing. It appears to me that we are operating under distinct environments.

     

    1. I'm working in Lion, you under Snow Leopard.

    2. I'm using iChat, you Messages.

    3. I'm using an account whose server is talk.google.com, port 5223; you jabber.org, port 5222 (I assume).

    4. I'm trying to establish a video chat with a Google Talk Android client; you a Psi client (I think, but I'm not sure).

     

    In any case, I still haven't seen any documentation claiming that iChat can video-communicate with Android Google Talk, so my complaint is not about the failure of video chatting in this context; it is only about the false information that iChat gives the user who tries it.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    HI,

     

    To be clear.

     

    The Snow Leopard computer is logging in to Google in a Web Browser ( Port 443)

    The Messages beta computer is using SSL on port 5223 (as would Google normally)

     

    I do have a Boot of OS X 10.7.4 that has iChat rather then Messages if you wish.  ( don't really expect a lot of change between Off Line and On Line via a Browser Buddies that I have already tested.

     

    The Option iChat 5 and iChat 6 to Start a Chat and the type from the File Menu may have a bearing  (Messages opens a Text Chat called New Message with no Name (Contact) or Buddy (Screen Name) listed)

    There is then a Video iCon to launch FaceTime for Contacts (iMessages people) or will do Video Chats iChat style for Buddies  (As well as the Buddies menu that has not changed)

     

    Psi is a a Java written app that is a Jabber Client.

    I have it set to login to the Jabber.me.uk server, the Google Talk server and another Jabber server for testing

    It does not have a Video Plug-in so I know that the "Buddy" (One of My Logins) does not have a Camera.

    (the same applies to the Web Browser Plug-in for Google Talk on Intel computers the Plug-in is the same for Lion, Snow Leopard and Leopard if you have an Intel running Leopard)

     

    I actually run GoogleTalk in my Messages boot on port 443

    However this is only the Login port and iChat and Messages will use a different set for Video chats:-

    Invites are on port 5678

    SIP Invite (The bit behind the scenes) is then on port 16402 as first choice.

    The actual Chat would also be on port 16402 no matter which typoe of Buddy it is (AIM, Jabber or Bonjour)

     

    What I was trying to get across by listing the different apps and Computers is that I can create a scenario very close to the one you have and I do get somewhat similar results for a my Off Line Buddy section.

     

    I will say that in iChat 5 Using the File Menu > New Chat > Video does not stay as soon as I put in a Jabber Buddy that cannot Video  (It changes to Text)

     

    I will try iChat 6 in Lion as soon as I can.

     

     


    9:36 PM      Wednesday; May 23, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.4)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.7.4),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Thanks for clarifying. This can get complex when one is comparing multiple environments.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    HI,

     

    There is a a Faux Pas with this in iChat 6.

     

    Using the iChat > File Menu > New Chat and selecting a Jabber Account to Send from and choosing Video as the Chat method AND then selecting a Buddy without a camera and not on iChat allows a Video chat to be launched.

     

     


    10:04 PM      Wednesday; May 23, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.2)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    But video chats are OK when the remote client lacks a camera. They are simply one-way video.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    Yeah but, ....

     

    iChat will use the same Protocol (and ports) to make a Video or Audio connection to any Buddy from Any List.

     

    That is to say that if you have an AIM list and contact an AIM Buddy and start a Video Chat then iChat will send a Visible Invite out on Port 5678 on the UDP Protocol

    Then it will move to using SIP (Session Initation Protocol) on port 16402 and the UDP Protocol to send another "Behind-the-Scenes" invite as part of the connection Process.

     

    The Failed Logs (In the Pop up that says Send to Apple) can be viewed in the Pop up (expand the "Details" triangle ).

     

    If you start a Chat to a Jabber Buddy then the same process kicks in.

    iChat even uses it to Bonjour Buddies.

     

    Jabber Apps like Psi (if they have Video Capability) use a Process called Jingle to connect.

    Google who run a Jabber server use their own Variant of Jingle in the Video Web Browser Plug-in and in the Standalone PC app called GoogleTalk as well.

    This is not that compatible with other Jingle capable apps.

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_%28protocol%29

     

    iChat using SIP and Jingle are not compatible.

     

    Therefore iChat cannot Video Chat to anyone Logged in to Google in a Web Browser who is using the Google Video Plug-in

    Nor the Standalone App

    Nor and Jabber app that uses Jingle on Mac or PC

     

    Put another way iChat will only Video chat to iChat as far as Jabber Buddies are concerned.

     

    Hence all my running around with Jabber Apps and Web Browser Logins early in this Thread.

     

    To be clear.

    iChat 5 will not let you start a  Video Chat from the New Chat option in the File Menu if the person cannot video.

     

    iChat 6 messes this up and does start Chats.  (both non Camera Buddies and Off Line people where it cannot tell their capabilities)

     

    Messages Beta will tell you for On line but Not iChat Buddies but Not for the Off Line Buddies (which it will  try to Video Chat to)

     

     

     

     


    10:24 PM      Wednesday; May 23, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.2)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Thank you. This is an encyclopedia of information about what does and doesn't work. It should help users figure out what to try. Precisely because of the complications that you describe, it is valuable to users to get true information in the error messages that appear. The falsity of the error message is the topic that I started this thread with. I guess if Apple fixes that then I can say my question is answered.

  • Ralph Johns (UK) Level 9 Level 9 (69,120 points)

    Hi,

     

    I have already reported it here and linked to this Thread.

     

     


    10:32 PM      Wednesday; May 23, 2012


    Please, if posting Logs, do not post any Log info after the line "Binary Images for iChat"

     

      iMac 2.5Ghz 5i 2011 (Lion 10.7.2)
     G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
     MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
     Mac OS X (10.6.8),

    "Limit the Logs to the Bits above Binary Images."  No, Seriously

  • Jonathan Pool Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)

    Good. Thanks for doing that.