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User profile for user: sanford_may
sanford_may Author
User level: Level 2
405 points

Airport Extreme Disk Consistently Losing Connection

I have an Airport Extreme sharing a printer and a powered two-partition hard drive connected via a fully powered USB hub. All this has worked flawlessly in the past. What's happening lately is I'll lose access to the hard drive. The share point will show up in the Finder but it will either not allow me to connect, or I can connect, the two partitions show up as folders -- as they always have -- but opening the folders, it doesn't show any of the files in the partitions. All the while, Internet and local network access via this Airport Extreme still work and printing to the shared printer still works.


Restarting the Airport Extreme fixes the problem temporarily. The hard drive seems fine. When I can access it, read/writes work fine. I recently did a 105GB transfer over Airport and it took a while as it should, but no problems whatsoever. I don't even have to power cycle the hard drive when I restart the Extreme. Further making me think the problem is something to do with the Extreme and not the hard drive is that sometimes the share point drops from the Finder altogether. And sometimes restarting the Extreme from the Airport Utility won't work. I select the Extreme and it asks for the management password (even though it's saved in the keychain and normally I don't have to enter it to access the Extreme in Airport Utility). I enter it correctly -- yep, I'm sure it's the correct password -- and it asks for the password again and again. When this happens I have to hard reset the Extreme by pulling the power. Then it works again for a while. I call this version of the failure "zombie mode," in that the Extreme is there, all devices Mac and iOS can see it and connect to it, it works for Internet/local networking and printing, but I can't access the Extreme from Airport Utility.


I'm running latest version of Lion and latest version, 7.6.1, of Airport Extreme firmware. And the problem is universal to all the Macs in the house. It's not just my Mac that can't access the shared hard drive.


I reset the Extreme to default and reconfigured it but the problem started up again right away. Any ideas?

Posted on Jun 5, 2012 4:59 AM

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14 replies
User profile for user: obtb
obtb
User level: Level 1
0 points

Jul 9, 2012 9:42 PM in response to sanford_may

Were you ever able to find a solution? I recently bought a new Extreme and am having the same problem. I've got a powered EHD connected to my Extreme, partitioned half for Time Machine, half for general storage/use between devices. Right now, I have the Extreme just joined to my current wireless network (Comcast), as I can't extend the network because the Xfinity wireless gateway isn't Apple.


Sometimes this setup works correctly, and I can see the Extreme in Airport Utility (5.6.1, not 6.0), and it's functioning correctly, and I can also see it in the Finder under Shared, where I can access and open all folders. Then, other times, I can see the Extreme in Airport Utility, but no shared drive in Finder. Other times, neither appear at all, but the Extreme will have a green light on the front, Airport Utility just can't find it (tonight I reset to factory and reconfigured it through an ethernet connection instead of wirelessly, we'll see if that helps). Then, even at other times, it'll do wacky things like what it's doing right now. I reconfigured everything like I mentioned above, and when I re-launched, Time Machine immediately performed its sync successfully, then I went to access the shared drive, which I can see in the Finder, but it's telling me "Connection Failed", without even trying to refresh the connection any time I leave and re-enter the drive. When it finally does start refreshing, it just gets back to "Connection Failed" status.


I'm at a loss here, don't understand why the Express is being so inconsistent. I've used my old Express as a router (obviously not with a connected HD) and never had any issues regarding finding it in Airport Utility, so I'm just clueless. Someone please help us!

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User profile for user: sanford_may
sanford_may Author
User level: Level 2
405 points

Jul 10, 2012 5:46 AM in response to obtb

Unfortunately, fix is direct connect drive to Mac or buy a Time Capsule. Here's what I think happened because my Time Machine (TM) volume shared via Extreme used to consistently work, too. At some point the Extreme firmware was changed to allow the connected HDD to spin downI I updated to that firmware. The model HDD I'm using, when direct connected, takes a long time to spin up and mount. So when connected to Extreme it either didn't spin up in time to beat the connection failure. Or once it spins down the Extreme no longer does anything to iniate a spin up.


This wonks everything. The sharepoint is there in the Finder but there's no volume behind it. The Mac's TM doesn't like that, obviously. And apparently the Extreme doesn't like it either because that's when it goes into zombie mode and you can't hit it with Airport Utility -- but you can still get out to the Internet and connect to/from other local network resources, including a printer connected to the Extreme via a powered USB hub.. I direct connected my TM HDD to my MacBook Air and left the printer connected to the Extreme, taking the powered USB hub out of the loop. Haven't had a problem since with network connectivity or printing or TM, the latter of which of course now occurs locally on the Mac.


Chronologoically, here's what I recall of the history of TM and Airport Extreme:


1. First TM OS X released, works with local volumes and with Time Capsules

2. Extreme-shared HDDs do not work with TM but it's coming in an update

3. Extreme-shared HDDs now work with TM, not unsupported but I don't recall explicit statement of Apple support

4. These TM schemes consistently work well for lots of people for a long time

5. Something happens

6. Extreme-shared HDDs used for TM start failing although these configurations worked just fine for years

7. Trouble report contacts w/ Apple yield: It might work, it might not, but either way, it's explicitly unsupported


For a fully Apple supported configuration you can try other external HDDs and hope you get lucky. You can buy a NAS that supports Time Capsule. Careful, though, because some advertise they work with TM but they don't. Or you can direct connect backup HDD(s) to individual Macs, as often as you think you need backups. That's what I did. I have one Mac the whole family uses I back up maybe twice a year and keep the HDD in a drawer. Maybe. And my MacBook Air with my work on it. I switch the direct-connected drive on every work day after I've finished all work for the day. And any other time on any day after I've done anything I'd hate to lose.


You're not crazy. Your configuration really does work intermittently. These configurations used to work all the time. They don't anymore and it's my opinion no amount of complaining about it to Apple will get them to fix it. In fact they say it's not broken, it's just unsupported. I think Time Machine was never the gee-whiz must-have feature Apple wanted it to be. It's quite handy, but people in general don't make backups. And Apple sells a lot more to people than IT departments. With the far lower failure rate of HDDs these days, people make backups even less. Lots of our stuff is replicated somewhere else, too. Flickr, Tumblr, Facebook, Dropbox, whatever. Flash storage virtually never fails and only rarely gets mangled enough to require a restore. The only reason people make back ups of their iPhones and iPads is because they are configured to back up to computers when they sync or, rather more lately, backup to iCloud when they're plugged in to charge. People don't even realize they've got current backups.


Making Time Machine again consistently work with Extreme-connected 3rd party external USB HDDs isn't going to hold a high rank on the OS X priority list.

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User profile for user: obtb
obtb
User level: Level 1
0 points

Jul 10, 2012 7:07 AM in response to sanford_may

I appreciate all the information. The one variable here that I still can't find an explanation for is why the Extreme keeps disappearing from the Airport Utility. Have you seen any explanations about that involving using TM through an Extreme-connect AirDisk that makes the Extreme "disappear"?


I bought the Extreme at Best Buy, it was an open box item, they told me nothing was wrong with it and I figured saving $20 was worth it. Now I'm thinking I need to take it back and pay the extra $20 for a brand new one. I don't want to go do that and find that the problem persists though, and that it wasn't the Extreme I've currently got set up.

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User profile for user: sanford_may
sanford_may Author
User level: Level 2
405 points

Jul 10, 2012 7:36 AM in response to obtb

Yes. Sorry I wasn't clear. That's EXACTLY the condition that caused my Extreme to be unreachable from Airport Utility. It either wouldn't show at all, would show but no status "light" by icon (blank, neither green, nor yellow, nor red) or show with green status light but trying to access it via Airport Utility I'd be prompted for the base station password, which I provided via keychain, which it rejected and asked again, which I then manually entered quadruple-checked, and would consistently reject and ask again. Until I power cycled the Extreme. Whether or not I could reach the Extreme via Airport Utility, it would still route to the Internet and I could print to the printer attached to it.


Since removing the external HDD AirDisk I used for TM via the Extreme, it's never failed to show up and properly connect in Airport Utility again.


That's only 2 cases. We could both have Extremes w/ hardware failure. But when I was trying to figure out what was going on I read numerous reports of same or similar behavior from individuals with same or similar configurations. Associate your experience and my experience w/ all those other anecdotal reports, and further associate my experience that removing the TM volume Extreme-connected AirDisk HDD appears to completely resolve the Airport Utility connectivity issue, I doubt it's a hardware failure. It's very likely a condition of the Extreme's interaction w/ the AirDisk when used as a TM volume. And since that's officially unsupported it will only be unintentionally fixed as colleteral effect in a future Airport Extreme firmware update, or intentionally but unofficially fixed in a firmware update as a very, very low priority item, i.e., quite possibly never.

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User profile for user: obtb
obtb
User level: Level 1
0 points

Jul 10, 2012 7:52 AM in response to sanford_may

Thanks again for all the info, it really has been helpful.


I guess I'll just remove the drive from the Extreme and plug it in directly to my laptop when I need to back it up. I was hoping to use the drive as an external storage device for an iPad that I'm purchasing at the end of the month, but I guess I'll just need to get another external drive to serve for that purpose.


One last question: have you tried using an external as an AirDisk without it serving as a TM backup destination? If so, have you experienced any of the same problems, or has it been smooth sailing (i.e. can always access shared disk and Extreme always shows up in AU)?




Thanks again, you've been very helpful!

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User profile for user: TheRolin
TheRolin
User level: Level 1
0 points

Oct 17, 2012 3:31 AM in response to sanford_may

I am experiencing the same problem periodically.


The main issue seems to be that when these spin downs and conncetion breakups happen the disk attributes get corrupted.


I then usually connect the disk directly to a Mac and repair the disk with the disk utility.


After that the disk works again, but unfortunately not for long.


I would agree that the source of this problem in fact is the spin down of the drive introduced with the 7.6 firmware.


I will downgrade to 7.5.2 which seems to be the only solution so far ( https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3498970 ). Unfortunately this is not possible with the Airport Utility in Lion.

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User profile for user: JasonSuave
JasonSuave
User level: Level 1
4 points

Apr 19, 2016 11:05 AM in response to we'll see

Just wanted to chime in that I'm having the exact same problem with El Capitan and the AE (all on latest versions). My macbook will "see" the AE for a day to a few days after a power cycle of the AE. Then, the macbook no longer "sees" the AE through the OSX utility -- yet the AE is still clearly working in Zombie mode until its next power cycle. For those wondering if this issue is hardware related, please note that I went through two brand new routers (one from Amazon and one from the Apple store) and both had the exact same issue. I also never had this issue with the older generation AE. It must be firmware-related.


Common Apple, I paid you $200 so that I could NOT use my crappy Xfinity router...

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User profile for user: msurowiec
msurowiec
User level: Level 1
19 points

Aug 2, 2016 11:18 AM in response to sanford_may

Hi All,

What I've done so far that has worked for 1 week with no disconnect issues.

I have been having the same issues. Late 2013 Macbook Pro 15. Latest OS X 10.11.6.. External drive connected to the newest Airport Extreme. I use it for TM. Disconnects were happening seemingly intermittently multiple times a week. Last week I changed

Energy Saver settings under Battery and Power Adapter to have

"Put hard disks to sleep when possible" unchecked

It has been 1 week and I have not had any disconnect issues. I will update again soon whether it continues to work or not. I'm hoping this is the easy solution.

I don't have any other computers connecting to this TM so I don't know if this works for a household with multiple macs backing up to TM. If this is a solution, my guess would be you have to have all macs using TM through AE to have the HD sleep unchecked. This is just an attempt to troubleshoot at this point. Good Luck Everyone!

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Airport Extreme Disk Consistently Losing Connection

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