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Problem using Ordered lists >26 items using letters in Pages

There seems to be a problem using Ordered Alphabetic lists in pages past 26 items in Pages 4.1 (build 923). Has anyone else seen this? Attaching a screen shot of the issue. If you have double letters in your list after Z items (26) it goes to AA, then BB,CC,DD,EE.


The correct sequence should be AA, AB,AC,AD... Why is this?


Is there a workaround?? I will file this as a product report feedback with Apple. I believe it applies with the current version of Pages on running on ANY compatible OS or maybe even on versions for iOS. Since I don't have an iPad someone else is free to check it there. OS X 10.6 & Pages (3.03, iWorks '08) does the same with this test document.


User uploaded file

MacBook Pro, Mac OS X (10.7.3), (6,2), 2GB RAM, 500GB HD

Posted on Jun 6, 2012 10:22 AM

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9 replies

Jun 7, 2012 8:08 AM in response to HenryS

Henry,


It seems that you and Apple have a difference of opinion on how letters should be reused in a long list. Every form of alpha list style, upper case/lower case, parentheses or not, uses the convention that Z rolls to AA, and ZZ rolls to AAA, etc.


You can provide feedback to Apple via the Pages menu and tell them they got it wrong, but I'd suggest that you have some good references to back up your position.


Jerry

Jun 7, 2012 8:38 AM in response to Jerrold Green1

Not exactly. I don't think they considered it at all! Is that really a difference of 'opinion', Jerry, or rather an oversight?


Just to be clear. It's not that I'm complaining about Z->AA. It's the next step, AA->BB->CC and onward from there which makes no sense, because it leaves 25 steps in the middle (AB,... AZ) logically out of the picture. It's my view that the progression should be AA, AB, AC, AD,...AZ, BA,... and not AA, BB, ... I consider this to be an error, pure and simple.


Finding examples of the correct way is not difficult. Look at Apple's own iWorks program, Numbers, which uses an alphabetic progression for columns' ordered labeling past 26! A Google search reveals that proper scientific notation has always been thus for this progression.


It is also my contention that in the event it is in some dispute (which it seems not to be in the scientific community or anywhere else for that matter), but if there is some concern, then the option ought to be given the user to set it to their liking. After all many other alpha-numeric progression schemes are offered in the lists. I have not checked the numbering scheme in other Apple products like Keynote. Feel free,


Both are shortcomings of Apple's design in Pages, IMO. BTW, the initial feedback I got was that they acknowledged it, filed an internal note, and said, no plans exist to fix this. Feel free to file your own comments in the feedback.

Jun 7, 2012 9:19 AM in response to fruhulda

I see what you mean. However, if you consider indenting, making a new order of the list (for the indented items) that might logically flow and it would by virtue of the period be somewhat obvious that this was a subcategorization. It's probably not the best way of tiering (possibly another issue, or shortcoming of tiered lists?). Not that relevant to my complaint / problem.


FWIW, my only work around is not to use the ordering at all, but to go to an unordered list (with matching format otherwise), and add in my own numbering instead. It kind of defeats using the list feature for this purpose as I would have to renumber any additions. However the good news, in Pages, is that it gets the letter in this line into a TOC (which it otherwise would NOT be).


Use of the paragraph style to get a TOC listing is how I got into this use of ordered lists in the first place.


Thanks, Fruhulda. Feel free to bring this up to Apple, too.

Jun 7, 2012 10:00 AM in response to HenryS

Henry,


Yes, I understood your point about what part of the sequence seems wrong to you, but I sure didn't make it clear to you that I did. I wasn't disagreeing with you, or not, but rather just suggesting a course of action on your part. Citing what iWork does in Numbers isn't the best example since Numbers is following the format of other, older, spreadsheet programs, and not necessarily those of standards of English composition. (Programs probably created by Computer Science nerds and not English majors, but I certainly have no inside scoop on that.)


If you have already had a discussion with Apple about this, there is nothing to be gained by kicking it around in this discussion area, except perhaps to ask if anyone else has any references you could use to make your case.


I agree that having the flexibility to define your own sequence would be nice. Like so many things that Word, for instance, has that Pages doesn't have, and may never have, because it's a lighter package.


While I don't relish being sent off to investigate what is someone else's need to check, I did look at Keynote, and as we probably could have guessed, it labels lists in the same way that Pages does. Since I was on a roll, I looked at TextEdit, LibreOffice and Bean.


TextEdit and Bean simply start over with A following Z. LibreOffice (and so I suppose Word too) uses the sequence you prefer.


Jerry

Jun 7, 2012 11:27 AM in response to Jerrold Green1

I think I understand your comment now, thanks, Jerrold. I didn't find any references in literary circles that you seem to prefer (pooh-poohing the nerds' views as you did) about the progression sequence. Apparently it is variable in computer applications to a degree, based on your findings. Maybe the fact that Keynote does do the same is what insired them to do Pages that way. Can't say that I ever used that feature in Keynote so I wouldn't have cared about it there one way or the other. My wife was an English major in college and she didn't remember what that progression was taught or even if it was.


It doesn't seem that anyone else uses Apple's technique though. I'd agree, it doesn't make a lot of sense to discuss further. So, I give up. Seemed so logical at the time, to me. The sequence used by Apple is not, and certainly seems less accepted as you mentioned, and I had already determined. Not that it will cut any ice with Apple.


The only 'literary' reference book I know of is Elements of Style by Strunk. It's not in there. There isn't apparently a hard and fast rule.


But your argument, that Apple's right in following a different technique between their own programs because Numbers is nerdy (paraphrasing), is a bit specious. Since the programs from MS (Office, still the most popular today, despite the variances in the others) agree completely between themselves Excel, Word, and Powerpoint in their progression. So, it seems that Apple did it to "Simply be different," eh?


While I generally like the Apple accomplishments in iWorks (especially given the price), this difference gives me pause. I gave them my 2¢ and that's about it. Thanks for checking. Discussion ended.


Henry

Jun 7, 2012 10:20 PM in response to HenryS

I'm sorry HenryS, I took it as a sort.


Yes that is correct, Apple's list does extend the 26 characters to 2 letters, doubled then eventually 3 tripled. That is as I would expect. There is no provision in this hierarchy for a set number of characters as for example in a table so within its logic, that is the order. Not a bug, just a design decision.


Peter

Problem using Ordered lists >26 items using letters in Pages

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