Can I extend a WiFi Network, using a 802.11n Airport Base Station with a 802.11g Airport Express?

Question

Can I extend a WiFi Network, using a 802.11n Airport Base Station with a 802.11g Airport Express?

Having a new Apple AirPort Extreme (802.11n) I need to extend the network since even the AirPort Extreme provides after about 30 Feet maximum only 50% signal strength in 2.4 GHz and maximum 41% signal strength in the 5 GHz band.

I have an Apple Airport Express (802.11g) but I am not sure that it can extend with it the network to get a better signal strength?

I know I can only use the Apple Airport Utility 5.6 to access the AirPort Express, but I can see also the AirPort Extreme though it (5.6).

Also, it seems that my "old" Wireless Motorola Cable Modem (SBG900) for the same distance (about 30 Feet), which is a 802.11g, gives still a better signal strength (62%) than the Apple Airport Extreme...

I guess I need the proper instructions how to, if it is possible.

Any intelligent answers available? Thanks.

MacBook Pro (15-inch 2.4/2.2 GHz), Mac OS X (10.7.4), MBP mid 2010

Posted on Jun 9, 2012 9:58 PM

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Answer 1

Bob Timmons

Level 10

186,068 points

Jun 9, 2012 10:23 PM in response to Joerg Von Veltar

Sorry, but the "g" AirPort Express does not have a setting to "Extend a wireless network".

You can confirm this if you open AirPort Utility 5.6, select the "g" AirPort Express, and click Manual Setup. Click the Wireless tab below the row of icons and then click on the Wireless Mode selection box.

"Extend" is not there...and "Join" does not provide any additional wireless signal. "Create" must be used with an Ethernet connection.

The "Extend" feature was added when Apple introduced "n" wireless routers in 2007-2008.

The "n" version of the AirPort Express will have the setting to "Extend a wireless network" if you need to provide more wireless coverage.

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Answer 2

Jun 10, 2012 9:04 AM in response to Bob Timmons

This is very confusing. The AirPort Express Base Station has three settings (under "Wireless" in the AirpPort Utility 5.6) "Create a wireless Network", "Participate in a WDS network" and "Join a wireless network".

Whereas the first is self-explanatory the second and third seem to indicate, that a relation with an existing Network can be created. This is also indicated, when selecting as the "Wireless Mode:" "Join a wireless network" and then selecting "Wireless Network Name:" where then all available networks 802.11 b/g/n pop up you can choose which to use.

Now, it does not make any sense, that if all these settings and selections are available, that the AirPort Express cannot extend an existing network, considering that the AirPort Extreme, which is a 802.11b/g/n can be connected to. Even the AirPort Utility 6.0 sees the AirPort Express 802.11b/g but when selected alerts that "This version of AirPort Utility doesn't support this base station. Use AirPort Utility 5.6 to configure or manage this base station. AirPort Utility 5.6 is available at AirPort Service and Support." And as said, that AirPort Utility 5.6 sees everything and has said setting options.

The way as I see this it is, that if I can pickup an existing network, created with an AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g/n with an AirPort Express 802.11b/g and have the option to "Join a wireless network" such AirPort Express should be able to broadcast the picked up and joint network. Otherwise the setting options for the AirPort Express are nothing else than a distortion of reality to me.

Also, before I got the new AirPort Extreme 802.11b/g/n I had an AirPort Extreme Base Station 802.11b/g (gray) and there I was able to extend the network via the AirPort Express 802.11b/g.

So the above comments do not make sense to me.

Hope you understand that and have a better explanation available.

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Answer 3

Bob Timmons

Level 10

186,068 points

Jun 10, 2012 11:33 AM in response to Joerg Von Veltar

Participate in a WDS network is an older setting that was used with "g" wireless devices.

In theory, you could use WDS settings on the AirPort Extreme and match up the AirPort Express that way. But, this type of setting will penalize the performance of your network in a big way.

It will make the AirPort Extreme a "g" wireless router...and you will lose any advantage of having faster "n" settings on the AirPort Extreme.

In addition, the bandwidth of the entire network will be cut in half. So, you will have a "g" wireless network operating at half speed if you want to use WDS settings on both the AirPort Express and AirPort Extreme.

I do not recommend that you do this unless you are willing to sacrifice much of the peformance which your AirPort Extreme is capable of providing.

I also doubt that you will even see the WDS settings on the AirPort Extreme since Apple hides them to discourage their use. Again,. If you want to do this anyway, and will not hold us responsible for the loss of performance on your network, and other difficulties that you may encounter during the configuration, please post back and we will tell you how to find them.

Bottom line....you are trying to mix two different generations of products with different features and capabilities. While is theoretically possible to do this, you will give up much more than you gain.

My recommendation....if performance is important to you....is to use a new AirPort Express "n", so you can make use of Apple's "Extend a wireles network" settings and maintain full speed "n" performance on your network.

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Answer 4

Jun 10, 2012 12:49 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks Bob,

I guess I have to spend the $100 to get a new AirPort Express as well and then it should work as desired.

The reasons for all this is, that the "new" (5th Generation) Apple AirPort Extreme did not resolve the original issue, by providing a more reliable and more area covering WiFi, rather shows a poor performance, only very slightly better than the older AirPort Extreme (gray) one did.

What is so discouraging is, that I am loosing at average 50% of signal strength within just 30 Feet and that my original Motorola SBG900 with just 802.11g gives a 10% better performance than the $200 Apple Airport Extreme 802.11n. Even the 5 GHZ are not good, are actually even less than the "g" signals.

Very bad, even changing (limited) the location of the AirPort Extreme did not good and I had hoped to just extend the Network with my AirPort Express, but I understand your points and guess I have to buy the newer one.

With other words, "you get what you pay for" also only in limited variations.

Again, thanks for your responces. It helped to understand the issues better.

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Answer 5

Bob Timmons

Level 10

186,068 points

Jun 10, 2012 1:06 PM in response to Joerg Von Veltar

the "new" (5th Generation) Apple AirPort Extreme did not resolve the original issue, by providing a more reliable and more area covering WiFi, rather shows a poor performance, only very slightly better than the older AirPort Extreme (gray) one did.

The broadcast power of wireless routers is limited by law, so there really will not be a lot of variation between products from one manufacturer to the next, despite the fancy advertising. I have used Apple, Linksys, Netgear and a few others, and they have all performed about the same as far as wireless signal strength in my home.

The biggest mistakes I have made were buying a product because it received a very good review in one of the computer magazines. I won't name the brand, but it was very highly rated...top of the charts. It did not perform as well as an older AirPort Extreme that I already had.

Even the 5 GHZ are not good, are actually even less than the "g" signals.

5 GHz signals are much weaker than 2.4 GHz signals, so this would be expected.

When you say that something has 50% signal strength, what application are you using to measure this?

I do have an AirPort Extreme here...a 3rd Generation model.....and will take a few measurements to see how things look.

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Answer 6

Jun 10, 2012 4:00 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Dear Bob,

I am using WiFi Explorer from the App Store (Utilities) for the Mac. It gives a pretty good graphical output and checks all bands.

Good luck.

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Answer 7

Bob Timmons

Level 10

186,068 points

Jun 11, 2012 1:39 PM in response to Joerg Von Veltar

I took a look at WiFi explorer and it works about the same as other utilities like Air Radar and iStumbler for this purpose.

I ran a quick check on a new 5th Generation AirPort Extreme that I have in the den....about 25-30 feet down the hall and around the corner from my office.

2.4 GH signal checks out at about 50% on each utility plus or minus 10% or so.

5 GHz signal checks out at about 45%

I have a 240-270 Mbps connection on the 5 GHz band and 110-130 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz connection testing from several spots in the office.

Internet connection speed on wireless is right up there with Ethernet connection speed.

Overall, pretty good performance, I would say. Your results seem to be in the same range.

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