Why doesn't the unlocked iPhone 4S work with Sprint or Verizon?

And how is any of that relevant to the topic of this thread?

KiltedTim North-East Ohio

And how is any of that relevant to the topic of this thread?

KiltedTim North-East Ohio

Really? The Japanese carriers do not allow unlocking of iPhones. How does that make them "more developed" than other markets?

You asked the question above, I answered it.

if you think my comment is not relevant to this thread, please ignore it.

So the hardware is standard - and its just a question of programing the lowest level firmware in the phone appropriately. Unless a programming fuse is blown when they are initially provisioned for distribution, it would be technically possible to reprogram the baseband firmware. Apple could certainly provide such a service, but it isn't in thier interest to do so as it means they are not selling new hardware if the facilitate old hardware to be used even longer.

I'm guessing the restrictions are all contract/policy, and not technical. It is likely doable from a software perspective but policies and contracts mean that you will not get access to the tools and software to actually do it.

So for all intents and purposes, your phone is stuck on the CDMA or GSM side of the fence in the US and cannot cross over. US cell network providers, living in centuries past.

jamnjunbug wrote:

Factory unlocked CDMA iPhone 4S from Verizon and Sprints works only outside of US because it only unlocks the GSM bands 900MHz and 1800MHz. US GSM uses 850MHz and 1900MHz.

Not true at all. If this were the case, my iPhone 4S from Sprint would not work with a Rogers SIM in Canada (which it certainly does). Canada's bands are the same as the United States.

My company's Sprint contract will be up next month and my iPhone 4S will be fully paid. Sprint has already been making overtures to have us upgrade to new devices but I am pushing the company to say no. If/until Apple and/or Sprint change their domestic unlock policies for fully paid up Sprint iPhone's, I see no reason to dump more corporate money down the Sprint drain. Since the iPhone 4S works fine in Canada with GSM/UMTS, the unlock policy is not a technical problem but a political problem.

I searched the value of used iPhone 4S's and Sprint's have the lowest used value. Even Verizon iPhone's are worth more used than Sprint iPhone's.

Indeed because it would make no economic sense for apple to manufacture different hardware, vs one platform that is software configured. So its all down to the software configuration on the radios and other firmware and the business deals that frive them.

http://www.apple.com/lae/iphone-4s/specs/

3 different types (MHz range/carrier) of iPhone 4S

I was able to get Verizon to unlock my 4S before a trip abroad because the contract had expired and they were obligated to unlock it. Otherwise, you can request it after a year or so into a contract, but it's at their discretion. But it is CDMA EV-DO, not GSM.

julienpdx wrote:

why is there one "tech specs" then? The iPhone 4 tech spec sheet makes it clear that two different versions were manufacturered; the iPhone 4S tech specs sheet states that only one hardware device was manufactured for this version. In fact, all the hype when this phone was announced clearly states that this was the first iPhone that DIDN'T have more than one hardware profile.

...and I didn't have to be RUDE to explalin that!

dianafrommarietta wrote:

I was able to get Verizon to unlock my 4S before a trip abroad because the contract had expired and they were obligated to unlock it. Otherwise, you can request it after a year or so into a contract, but it's at their discretion. But it is CDMA EV-DO, not GSM.

You've got some incorrect information. You only have to be a Verizon Wireless customer for 60 days in order to get a phone unlocked. You don't need to wait until the end of a contract. That's policy, not discretion. The Verizon Wireless iPhone 4S is both CDMA and GSM. You state that it's not GSM but then show the specs that explain it is. It's the GSM part that's being unlocked.

Best of luck.

It is interesting to note that in the CDMA world there is the Master Subsidy Lock code and Sprint will give that out at contract completion. They gave me mine for my iPhone 4S but it is useless since it has no effect on the GSM/UMTS lock. Also since Sprint and Verizon generally will not register the ESN's of each others devices on their network, activating an iPhone from either Sprint or Verizon on the others companies network will not be possible. Not technically impossible but policy impossible. One reason I prefer the GSM/UMTS standard over the antiquated CDMA2000 standard.

In the meantime, Sprint continues to insist that a domestic SIM unlock is not possible for the iPhone 4S. Two reasons given so far are; 1) a custom Sprint firmware is installed on the 4S and 2) even if unlocked, it will not work with T-Mobile or AT&T. Number one is hogwash as the SKU's are the same no matter the carrier. The phone does have a vendor specific "carrier profile" installed but that is downloaded when the phone is registered on a particular network. When I put my Rogers Wireless SIM in my phone, it sometimes updates the carrier profile. As for number 2, I just have to laugh because if it were true, the iPhone 4S would not work in Canada and it would not be possible to roam on AT&T or T-Mobile in the United States when a foreign SIM is installed.

I will admit there is something quirky about the iPhone 4S configuration that prevents it from going into GSM mode when a Sprint or Verizon SIM is installed in their respective iPhone's. However, I believe that functionality is controlled by the activation process and it is specifically configured to not go into GSM mode when it sees an MCC-MNC of 310-120 (Sprint) or 316-010 (Nextel) for Sprint and the four MCC-MNC codes assigned to Verizon (note I tested a Nextel SIM, cut down to micro-SIM size, in my Sprint iPhone 4S and it was not rejected). I would love to stick my Sprint SIM card into an unlocked GSM-only iPhone 4S and see what happens.

n2jtx wrote:

I will admit there is something quirky about the iPhone 4S configuration that prevents it from going into GSM mode when a Sprint or Verizon SIM is installed in their respective iPhone's.

Neither the Sprint nor the Verizon iPhone 4S use a Sprint or Verizon SIM. Verizon and Sprint only use SIMs for 4G LTE service, something the 4S is not capable of. I'm not sure about the Sprint 4S but the Verizon version comes with a Vodafone SIM in the event the owner should wish to travel internationally and pay Verizon for roaming. In netiher case is the SIM required for activation. The phone will work just fine without it.

My Sprint iPhone 4S came with a Sprint branded SIM card and my sisters' Verizon iPhone 4S has a Verizon branded SIM card. They are useless in the United States and removing them causes the standard "No SIM Card Installed" message to be displayed but the phone keeps on working since it is registered using the phones' ESN. The SIM's are intended to be used in those countries without CDMA service where the phone needs to access the GSM/UMTS network using your Sprint account information. In order for that to work, you have to have Sprint activate the Sprint SIM for international roaming (I have not done that opting for a foreign SIM instead).

My iPhone 4S also works in Canada without a SIM card as both Bell and Telus in Canada still maintain legacy CDMA networks and are roaming partners with Sprint. When they upgraded to 3G service back in the mid-2000's, they opted to migrate to the GSM/UMTS standard rather than EV-DO under CDMA2000. As such, I can only get 2G voice and data speeds if using CDMA in Canada.

The SIM in your sister's phone was a Vodafone GSM SIM, not a Verizon 4G LTE SIM. I don't know what you mean by "broadband SIM". I don't know who Sprint uses for international roaming these days but, they don't have Sprint GSM SIMs.

Best of luck.

Meg St._Clair wrote:

The SIM in your sister's phone was a Vodafone GSM SIM, not a Verizon 4G LTE SIM. I don't know what you mean by "broadband SIM". I don't know who Sprint uses for international roaming these days but, they don't have Sprint GSM SIMs.

Fine then. I guess I am an idiot and failed reading in school. I guess I cannot physically read the writing on a SIM card such as my Sprint micro-SIM that says "Sprint" and "Part: SIMGWW216R". Nor I am smart enough to use the number analysis tool at http://numberingplans.com/?page=analysis&sub=simnr to decode the ICCID to determine the carrier it is assigned too (happens to decode to Nextel 316-010 which is owned by Sprint). And I was definitely not bright enough to do the exact same things with my sisters SIM card and somehow I read "Vodaphone" printed on the SIM as "Verizon". Silly me.

As for "Broadband SIM", where did I write that?

My apoplogies for reading "branded" as "broadband". The other mistakes confused me.

Best of luck.

The SIM doesn't contain the radios. The radios are on the phone. The low level firmware on the phones determine how the radios operate, the SIM card just provides some additional data to the phone software to help it decide how it communicates with the radios, what systems it is authorized on (software keys), and stores some data potentially. At least thats how I understand it.

The issue is, from what I can tell, that in the US, the radio firmware is highly restrictive to lock in carriers, and not source exists for replacing that firmware with an unlocked/multi-carrier firmware. You need the firmware that enables the use of the radios and phone on a carriers network, the SIM that goes with the carriers network, but also the carriers network allowing your phone onto thier network.

So while there is no technical (electronic or programability) reason for the iPhone 4S or 5, 5S and 5C working on only select networks, it is business reasons (locked in legal restrictions encoded in the firmware and policies governing the carrier networks) that prevent users from being able to use thier hardware on other networks in the US.

This is the kind of stuff we need our legislature to fix; they took a swing at it but its not yet fixed.

Minok wrote:

So while there is no technical (electronic or programability) reason for the iPhone 4S or 5, 5S and 5C working on only select networks, it is business reasons (locked in legal restrictions encoded in the firmware and policies governing the carrier networks) that prevent users from being able to use thier hardware on other networks in the US.

Um... OK. That's already been made clear. Did you actually read this thread before you posted?

This is the kind of stuff we need our legislature to fix; they took a swing at it but its not yet fixed.

Then call your congress critter. This is a technical support forum. Not a political action forum.