I don't think anyone can convince Apple of anything. They are the 300 pound gorilla in the room. The only way that Apple will listen is if all the PC laptops start blowing the doors off of Apple with their own 17" HD displays. They better do their homework though because, other than the 17" display, Apple has still got them beat in the industrial design and ergonomic department. I, for one, hope that a company like Samsung or Sony or Dell will pull the pants down on Apple and make Apple eat crow. Competition is good. We need this to happen if we hope to make Apple better. Oh, and Apple? Support FLASH g+_#ammit!

Network 23 wrote:

 

There is no problem convincing Apple that a 17-inch Retina would be worthwhile for professionals. Apple would probably believe this right away.

 

The problem is in convincing Apple that it would be worthwhile for them.

I think Apple is making a big mistake here. Even if the 17" didn't sell well compared to the smaller ones, I'm pretty sure it didn't make a loss. And even if they didn't make a lot of money off the 17", it still makes sense to have it in their lineup, because it was used by so many top professionals.

The goodwill and free advertising for the Apple brand that comes from having their products being used by the top professionals, should not be underestimated. A lot of people are influenced by which brands the top professionals are using, and end up buying the same brand but something cheaper. So if a lot of mobile professionals would switch to Windows, in order to have their larger laptop screens, Apple would lose a lot of this goodwill.

The Apple brand has always been overpriced. And one of the reasons they have been able to charge top dollar for their products, has been because it was seen as the best because it was used by so many professionals in so many areas including desktop publishing, video editing, music production, photography etc. And who kept Apple afloat during their troubled times in the 90s? It was the professionals. So just because Apple now is a consumer products company, it still makes sense to have both the best laptop and desktop for professionals in their lineup, even if they don't make them a lot of money.

Don_McCracken wrote:

 

And who kept Apple afloat during their troubled times in the 90s? It was the professionals.

That is said often, but even though I am one of the professionals who helped Apple stay afloat in the 90s by buying multiple Macs, it must be said: There is not a single technology company on this planet who cares or should care about who their customers were in the 1990s. That was two decades ago, and that is eons in computer time. That's like a presidential candidate basing a campaign on voter sentiment in 1813. Today's market is almost 100% different in many ways, for instance, smaller devices dominate...not larger ones.

I'm not saying people shouldn't ask for a 17" Retina MacBook Pro. I'm just trying to set the scene for why it's so hard for one to exist today.

Network 23 wrote:

 

There is not a single technology company on this planet who cares or should care about who their customers were in the 1990s. That was two decades ago, and that is eons in computer time. That's like a presidential candidate basing a campaign on voter sentiment in 1813. Today's market is almost 100% different in many ways, for instance, smaller devices dominate...not larger ones.

I agree. I'm just saying that I think Apple would do worse in aggregate, if they really started to neglect the needs of the top professionals. If they lost their business, they would also lose the image associated with those pros using their products.

In comparison, Nike also sells most of their clothes and shoes to average consumers. But their brand appeal is based on the fact that the pros use Nike products. This is why many consumers buy Nike's products. I think the same is true for Apple to a certain extent. For many years, every time you saw a professional do anything creative on a computer, it was always on a Mac. That set the groundwork for the brand value and image that Apple has today.

So with this in mind, I think it would be wise for Apple to always have products in their lineup that meet the needs of those professionals, even if those particular products are not very profitable per se. Because you can't really put a value on how much it adds to the brand image when most professionals use Apple products.

Other technological companies such as Nikon and Canon have flagship products and yet make most of their money selling consumer grade stuff. For instance, a Nikon D800E and lens will set you back $6,000 but how many have they sold? I am sure Nikon's revenue for the D800E is abysmal compared to the Coolpix cameras sold at every Costco across the country. So should Nikon dump their high-end gear? Of course not. Professional photographers need and use the best gear they can get their hands on. Furthermore, technologies in their flagship products have a way of trickling down to their consumer grade products.

Apple is at a crossroads. I see them splitting hairs. They have to decide if they are going to make a commitment to the professional market or not. With their hardware and software development, I feel that Apple is falling behind. They are beholden to shareholders and profits. We know have Steve Jobs felt about this... and he was no saint.

Check out this article.  I hope it's true!

Reports: 17-inch Retina MacBook Pro Revival with 2013 Haswell Refresh

July 18, 2013 By Damien Johnson

http://www.highlightpress.com/reports-17-inch-retina-macbook-pro-revival-with-20 13-haswell-refresh/3480/djohnson

It’s become something of a given that Apple will launch a 2013 Retina MacBook Pro range sometime this year, complete with the Intel Haswell chipsets that breathed new life into the latest MacBook Air. Chances are the new Haswell MacBook Pro won’t be setting any records in terms of speed and performance, but when it comes to all-important battery life and productivity, it will prove a tough act to follow.

Apple has of course remained tight-lipped on the subject, but speculation is growing that the 2013 Pro refresh will bring with it the second-coming of the 17-inch MacBook Pro.

The suggestion was first made by the folks at the Stabley Times and has since piqued the interest of plenty of others. Having proved to be anything but a top-seller following Apple’s introduction of the first Retina MacBook Pro, the 17-inch model was considered unnecessary and shelved indefinitely.

However, it is now being mused that Apple will bring Retina quality to the 17-inch MacBook Pro as part of the range’s 2013 refresh, which given the firm’s advances over the past 12-months is far from implausible.

No details have yet been confirmed as to when and where the 2013 MacBook Pro refresh will happen, but most signs are pointing to an early fall release date for the first models at least – most likely October.

If true, that would be great for all those bemoaning the loss of the 17" model in the MacBook Pro line... if true. That's an older article and I've not heard of any other touting a new 17" Retina model.

Clinton

Personally, I barely care anymore because I'm getting used to not having what I need with Apple. IF they bring in a new 17" MBP, it most likely will still be an anorexic version and geared toward consumers. Apple is all about consumer's these days. Perhaps when they aren't able to dazzle everyone with the newest consumer item, they'll start thinking about professionals again. Who knows. All I know is, my work has revolved around their product and their product has driven the software choices I've made all these years. Shame on them for disregarding so many of us. And, if they eventually bring back the 17, shame on them for waiting so long Shame on them for not responding to anyone regarding this issue.

I wish someone would show up and be a serious competitor. We need solid choices (I'm not going to Windows). I'd like to see that with Adobe too. I wish the other companies could have kept in the game. Competition is good.

So, while I continue to use Apple products for my work, my opinion of Apple has certainly dropped. The love is no longer there.

I am now of a different opinion. Everything has been shrinking in the computer world for quite some time.

Traditionally I've been a desktop-only user, but as you've had more power in a smaller space, I've been on the laptop. A 17 inch i7. It's pretty powerful, but I am finding that it just doesn't have the power I need. I go back to an "obsolete" G5, and it's blazingly powerful in comparison. Doesn't get stuck.

So really, my next machine will be darth vader's waste paper basket. The Mac Pro. It's small enough to go in a bag.

So it's quite clear that apple do have a viable solution for power users. It's not a laptop, but it is a portable. The power will be sufficient to process 1080p video in realtime, unlike my 17 inch laptop, which is giving me less than 25fps at 640x480 in resolume.

6" by 9" is no trouble to lug. My 12 inch Cintiq and a 1080p broadcast monitor will be the screens. The whole thing will go in a decent sized peli case.

If I need to run off batteries on a difficult site, I'll just use a fat lithium polymer pack and a mains inverter.

Great points!  Good read!  Thank you.

I'd like to add that with credit cards and loans, financing and high employment rate of these times, people will always spend, spend, spend, it really doesn't matter how much, people this day in age will rather pay off a huge amount of credit card debt then make the right, real world decisions for themselves.  People (consumers) are driven by two major factors to buy, buy, buy, and that is influenced by ads promising prestige along with consumers who don't know any better.

My personal experience with Apple was a terrible one when I got my first mac ever.  I was in grade 5 when my older sister walked into a Future Shop and the sales person convinced us to pick up the LC 575 (dating myself here).  Out of all the personal computers he pressured us into the Apple LC 575 which we paid 3500CAN for.  We had cash on hand so it was paid for out right.  But within 48 hours I realized that I couldn't do anything worthwhile with this machine, all the software out there were for IBM so NOTHING was compatible for me!  

So to conclude, this is what Apple has done (post Jobs), they specifically make their ads to convince people that their now mass consumer goods some how "brings out the pro" or "makes everyone feel like a pro" using their extremely over priced thin and flimsy machinese DO NOT deserve the PRO name.  People are having the highest buyers remorse of all time with their 15"retina machines.  Less and less people are actually able to afford these machines but Apple makes it more, and more tempting to the ConSumers, while less and less consideration for their ProSumer needs.  They finally huffed and puffed, and released the new Mac Pro, though the guts are powerful - WHAT were they THINKING with the design concept, wow - what an ugly machine.

These companies' greed have gone completely unchecked and completely out of control at this point.  It will take divine intervention.

That is no solution what so ever.  You're gonna lug around a waste basket and call yourself a pro, that isn't very efficient business thinking at all.  What sort of thinking is this?  What about the display, you're going Star Trek style and "beam it over Scotty"? 

My 17" MacBook Pros 2006 and late 2011 are maxed out completely to the brim of upgradability and they are zippy, and cool to boot.  I commute with them almost all of the time getting lots of work done when they need to be done, with tons of spare time to enjoy the gorgeous display for movies and occasional games!  This is the MOST powerful portable I ever been blessed with.  It can only be encouraged to be improved!  Don't "go back to the future" and definitely don't carry around the waste basket PRO, my golly that is some not encouraging thinking what so ever.  We're trying to smarten up Apple here my friend not give them a reason to point at us and laugh!

To conclude, 17" is the largest possible powerful portable notebook machine, anything smaller and anything larger is counter intuitive for the PROSumer.

This is where you are wrong, so wrong my friend.

There is NO other 17" out there that comes close to being portable by any means, not close at all.  The bags are supposed to be large, padded and also have multiple compartments to store other things while you travel.  If you are a professional and all you carry around is your MacBook Pro in a PJ sleeve, how do you think that looks to your clients?  The whole idea of the invention of the 17" MBP might I remind you is that it is the most powerful and the most portable PROSolution for the on the go professionals who are often away from their desk and need to be at the scene of the crime all the time!

Most PROSumers I know and work with share a common practice, we have one or two other really powerful desktops (Mac PROs) and up to 4 external monitors at our desks, in addition to owning an anti-glare, maxed out 17"MBP in our large, easy to carry bags / back packs.  These notebooks are the easiest to "lug" around, you brun a lot of excess fat and feel lighter on your feet with every mile you travel with this machine on your back trust me.

Get in shape.  It is good for brain cells and especially good for business right?

Right!

Can an all-day battery life fit inside a 15 inch MacBook Pro? Hmm I wonder.

If memory serves, wasn't it the 17 inch MacBook Pro Unibody that set a whole new standard of battery life? That 1000 life cycle was first given to the 17 inch MacBook Pro. MacBook Air can have its all-day battery life because it has a low-performance CPU and no retina display.

Since MacBook Pro requires a high-performance Haswell CPU and they all have a Retina Display (Non Retina / Unibody MacBook Pro is likely to be discontinued), can a 15 inch really have an all-day battery life? What I'm getting here is I feel like the all-day battery life in the MacBook Air is actually a hint for the return of the 17 inch MacBook Pro (with a Retina Display).

I really hope what I am thinking is correct and Apple gave the all-day battery life to the 17 inch MacBook Pro while both 15 and 13 inch received a 9 hours battery life. With the optical drive gone, I believe it would have a huge amount of space to fit a battery that can deal with high performance tasks and it can have an all-day battery life.

veepro wrote:

 

That is no solution what so ever.  You're gonna lug around a waste basket and call yourself a pro, that isn't very efficient business thinking at all.  What sort of thinking is this?  What about the display, you're going Star Trek style and "beam it over Scotty"? 

I used to drag around a flightcase on wheels if you must ask. I have no idea what your reference point on professional work is derived from, but decent equipment doesn't tend to come in form factors 1cm thick.

I'm not looking to "make an impression" on a client in a meeting! If I want to do that, I'll take a macbook air and a projector and show them what they need to see. My equipment is not a fashion accessory which makes me look a certain way! I need it to work.

I would happily use a laptop 10 inches thick like a suitcase. I used to transport a *pair* of 22 inch Mitsubishi CRTs weighing nearly 40 kilos each to sites. Don't get me wrong, that was a hassle. I later found a decent 19 inch monitor which ran at such an aggressive dot pitch that I could see enough on screen with just that.

Regarding screens, the wacom Cintiq 12WX is as light as a feather, and there are plenty of broadcast industry portable monitors which do 1080p. A couple of my projectors are tiny and 1080p, and kick out 5000 lumens. For my uses, it doesn't have to be a laptop. I dragged G5s around plenty, G4s, G3s, PowerMacs, and Quadras. I would not call any of those a "portable". The new mac pro is so tiny, it's arguably a portable.

In the studio, I'll be using a projector and a bunch of big flat panels. That'll do the job which I want it for absolutely great.

I don't actually use the battery in my laptop very much apart from quickly flipping it open & checking emails (for which I have a macbook air, anyway), because running the machine on full blast will eat the battery in a lot less than 5 hours. The battery for me, really, is a form of UPS rather than an essential feature.

Macbook Air and a little cylinder Mac Pro makes perfect sense for me. I'd rather have a little workstation than a big laptop, basically. Most of the Windows heads that I work with carry shuttle PCs around.

I would happily use a laptop 10 inches thick like a suitcase. I used to transport a *pair* of 22 inch Mitsubishi CRTs weighing nearly 40 kilos each to sites. Don't get me wrong, that was a hassle. I later found a decent 19 inch monitor which ran at such an aggressive dot pitch that I could see enough on screen with just that.

 

Regarding screens, the wacom Cintiq 12WX is as light as a feather, and there are plenty of broadcast industry portable monitors which do 1080p. A couple of my projectors are tiny and 1080p, and kick out 5000 lumens. For my uses, it doesn't have to be a laptop. I dragged G5s around plenty, G4s, G3s, PowerMacs, and Quadras. I would not call any of those a "portable". The new mac pro is so tiny, it's arguably a portable.

 

In the studio, I'll be using a projector and a bunch of big flat panels. That'll do the job which I want it for absolutely great.

 

I don't actually use the battery in my laptop very much apart from quickly flipping it open & checking emails (for which I have a macbook air, anyway), because running the machine on full blast will eat the battery in a lot less than 5 hours. The battery for me, really, is a form of UPS rather than an essential feature.

Wow that's scary. I kinda use the 17 inch MacBook Pro in almost every occasion. Since I have three of them, I won't worry much on overworking my MacBook Pro. Right now, I really can't go back to the old style 15 or 13 inches. In my pro field, I feel like 17 inch MacBook Pro is the way to go. No need for a monitor, no need for a set of five or six Macs, and if there is an earthquake, all I have to do is put my MacBook Pro and my adaptor into my bag, and hopefully it won't be a crazy one.

During Rush Hour, there will always be a serious traffic issue. During that time, I can work on my stuff or if I'm too lazy, I can just surf the Internet.