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Q: retina display for 17 inch macbook pro

How can we convince Apple that having a 17 inch Retina display is worthwhile for those of us PROFESSIONALS that use that larger screen and realestate?

 

I have had 3 17 inch models and have continuely upgraded to the latest and greatest and the 15 inch IS NOT adequate for the work I do on  day to day basis, Let's get together and MAKE THIS RIGHT.

Mac Pro

Posted on Jun 15, 2012 8:45 AM

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Q: retina display for 17 inch macbook pro

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  • by CrimsonCage,

    CrimsonCage CrimsonCage Aug 19, 2013 2:40 AM in response to pc2k5
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 19, 2013 2:40 AM in response to pc2k5

    By having a demo where these same people who have never carried at 17" in the first place, they can actually COMPARE wearing a backpack with a 15" MBP or PC and walk around the store. AND then wear a backpack with a 17" MBP and walk around the store and FEEL what the additional weight of a 17" is like?  Does it actually feel more heavy when actually WALKING  around the STORE? Can they actually tell? Can they tell the difference with a laptop BAG that is also with power supply, paper notebook, post-it notes, water bottle, other USB cables and devices, pens and pencils?

     

    Sort of like a Coke and Pepsi test except the goal is not "which taste better?", but the goal is that a 17" is NOT MORE HEAVIER than you think it might be and it feels the same carrying it in a laptop bag, so why not just the larger one, th 17" MBP?

    huh???

     

    I don't know what you are trying to explain here. Laptop bag and a backpack together would be Apple's Lucky Bag that came out at the beginging of every year. I used to have a lucky bag from Apple and those things have an additional weight. Even though there is nothing inside, it's still heavy. If the 17 inch were to be more powerful than the 15 inch, that would make a big difference.

     

    Speaking about additional weight, ever ask where does the 17 inch Unibody and the Non-Unibody got its extra weight from? The aluminium body, the battery, the hard disk, etc. Those things have a weight less than half a kilogram. Big question, where is the main source of the weight? I took out the optical drive and it is a lot lighter but it's still above 2.7 kg. 

  • by pc2k5,

    pc2k5 pc2k5 Aug 19, 2013 5:45 AM in response to CrimsonCage
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 19, 2013 5:45 AM in response to CrimsonCage

    CrimsonCage wrote:

     

    huh???

     

    I don't know what you are trying to explain here. ... If the 17 inch were to be more powerful than the 15 inch, that would make a big difference....I took out the optical drive and it is a lot lighter but it's still above 2.7 kg. 

     

    The point of the scale and weighting the entire laptops and BAG and the in-store demo is to COMPARE walking around with the 17" and 15" and see lbs / kg numbers as well as FEEL the difference between the two laptops.

     

    The scale is NOT to just weigh and measure a SINGLE laptop plus bag and call it a day.

     

    If you are going to get a laptop it is going to have some WEIGHT in the first place. It's the difference between that laptop, like a 13" vs the 17".....or the difference between the 15" and the 17" and is the difference noticable, worth the cost? And just as important to some folks, will the difference make it too heavy to carry? They have to carry something so it's going to weigh a few pounds.

  • by Cowicide Moo,

    Cowicide Moo Cowicide Moo Aug 20, 2013 3:40 PM in response to jpongin
    Level 1 (25 points)
    Aug 20, 2013 3:40 PM in response to jpongin

    I agree.  Apple needs to produce a 17 inch retina MacBook Pro (or at least near-retina resolution) before the compeition gets further ahead.

     

    It would finally, truly make my MacBook Pro a portable office where I can keep multple windows open without having to sort through them near as much which adds up to extra work time.

     

    Right now when I have major projects I hook up and external monitor to get that extra workflow speed, but that's not feasablie when I'm on the road.  After all, the laptop is supposed to be a portable computer.

  • by Network 23,

    Network 23 Network 23 Aug 21, 2013 9:45 AM in response to pc2k5
    Level 6 (12,043 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 21, 2013 9:45 AM in response to pc2k5

    pc2k5 wrote:

     

    1. There should be a display next to the 17" MBP with a USB Digital Scale attached to some other Mac computer that shows the weight (with other standardized and familiar weights just to keep people honest).

    This demo will fail. Another way the market has changed is in travelling. Because of the new fees on checked baggage and stiffened enforcement of carry-on baggage, there is increasing pressure to keep size and weight of luggage down. This is working against any portable devices becoming larger and working for portable devices getting smaller, thinner, and lighter. In addition, thinner devices like iPads do not always have to be removed from their bags to go through airport security scanners. This makes larger portables less convenient. Larger portables are becoming severely disadvantaged in the travel market.

     

    The other reason the demo will fail is because people are completely turned on by how light the Airs are. I currently cannot work on a laptop smaller than my 15", but when I am in an Apple store and lift the 13" Air I find myself desiring it highly because it makes the 15" feel like an anvil. A heavier laptop will not win any fans. It does not matter if you can show that a 17" would only be a little bit heavier, the fact is that if it is heavier at all, it will not win.

     

    Another clue as to Apple's direction is the new Mac Pro. It is 1/8 the volume of the old one. Even the tower gets downsized.

     

    Again, I'm not against having a 17" in the lineup, but I think it must purely be a Pro machine and the trend is going against larger hardware of any type, even the pro desktop, therefore the fight to have a 17" laptop is all uphill.

  • by pc2k5,

    pc2k5 pc2k5 Aug 21, 2013 10:53 AM in response to Network 23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 21, 2013 10:53 AM in response to Network 23

    Network 23 wrote:

     

    This demo will fail. Another way the market has changed is in travelling. Because of the new fees on checked baggage and stiffened enforcement of carry-on baggage, there is increasing pressure to keep size and weight of luggage down. This is working against any portable devices becoming larger and working for portable devices getting smaller, thinner, and lighter. In addition, thinner devices like iPads do not always have to be removed from their bags to go through airport security scanners. This makes larger portables less convenient. Larger portables are becoming severely disadvantaged in the travel market.

     

     

    To say that "airline" travel restrictions are going to cause consumers to lean toward a smaller and lighter laptops is like  saying "Hey, I am going on a ski trip and due to smaller and lighter travel restictions, I am not going to bring any winter clothing and instead bring my summer beach time wear as that is much ligher and smaller to pack. In fact, a carry-on with only summer time beach wear will make my airport experience better as I can get in and out of the airport faster."

     

     

     

     

     

    Network 23 wrote:

     

    The other reason the demo will fail is because people are completely turned on by how light the Airs are. I currently cannot work on a laptop smaller than my 15", but when I am in an Apple store and lift the 13" Air I find myself desiring it highly because it makes the 15" feel like an anvil. A heavier laptop will not win any fans. It does not matter if you can show that a 17" would only be a little bit heavier, the fact is that if it is heavier at all, it will not win.

     

    With that logic, everyone should get an iPhone and forget about the iPad, MacPro and anything they can't fit inside a shirt pocket. 17" is a little heavier but it also should be more PRODUCTIVE. Getting things DONE and DONE faster would seem like a good thing, wouldn't it?

     

     

    Network 23 wrote:

    Another clue as to Apple's direction is the new Mac Pro. It is 1/8 the volume of the old one. Even the tower gets downsized.

     

    While the tower is greatly downsized, the MONITOR remain the same size or even larger with many using DUAL monitors. Size is important but so is PRODUCTIVITY.

     

     

     

     

     

    Network 23 wrote:

     

    Again, I'm not against having a 17" in the lineup, but I think it must purely be a Pro machine and the trend is going against larger hardware of any type, even the pro desktop, therefore the fight to have a 17" laptop is all uphill.

     

     

    If the "trend" were going  going against larger hardware, why is the press and media screaming for an additional version of the iPhone that is larger?  Last time I checked, the Samsung Galaxy is a pretty large phone.

     

     

    Why not just do a demo at a few stores around the country? It will certainly not cost much whatsoever. A USB digital scale, and empty unibody shell with weights and a few laptop bags?

     

    If it fails, it fails, but Apple will not go bankrupt on the costs to make a test demo in a few stores a reality.

  • by NY27,

    NY27 NY27 Aug 21, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Network 23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 21, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Network 23

    I think this is true in some cases, but not all.  People have varying needs and goals re laptops.  It's usually not a good idea to generalize. 

     

    For example, some people rarely travel with their laptop, like me.  I use it as a desktop.  An iMac wouldn't work for me because I'm often moving things around on my desk and it would block my view. The 17 inch MBP is perfect for me. 

     

    Also, implying that people would trade off weight for size is sometimes true and sometimes not.  Most people would prefer lighter.  But if I have to accept a little heavier weight to get a computer that is far more productive for me, I'd gladly do it.  I think many other people would too, including most people on this thread. 

     

    Re the trend being toward smaller devices, again, sometimes true, sometimes not.  When screens are involved, the trend often is toward larger.  For example, smart phones, tablets and TV's often are trending larger. Samsung is taking market share from Apple partly because they make larger screens.  The same is true with laptops. Many people would prefer larger screens on laptops, such as the 17 inch.

     

    The 17 inch MBP is the prestige, highend laptop.  If it were made lighter with a retina screen and the price was not too expensive, I think many average consumes, in addition to professionals, would want it, in the same way that many average consumers want larger smart phones, tablets and TV's. 

  • by Network 23,

    Network 23 Network 23 Aug 22, 2013 2:44 PM in response to pc2k5
    Level 6 (12,043 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 22, 2013 2:44 PM in response to pc2k5

    pc2k5 wrote:

    A heavier laptop will not win any fans. It does not matter if you can show that a 17" would only be a little bit heavier, the fact is that if it is heavier at all, it will not win.

     

    With that logic, everyone should get an iPhone and forget about the iPad, MacPro and anything they can't fit inside a shirt pocket. 17" is a little heavier but it also should be more PRODUCTIVE. Getting things DONE and DONE faster would seem like a good thing, wouldn't it?...If the "trend" were going  going against larger hardware, why is the press and media screaming for an additional version of the iPhone that is larger?

    Because everybody knows that the goal is not the smallest possible device. That's an incorrect conclusion to jump to.

     

    What people want is the device at the correct sweet spot for both portability and productivity. More than one columnist has noted that phones are getting bigger and computers are getting smaller, because phone screens are enlarging to nudge them to more productivity, while computers are getting smaller to nudge them to more portability.

     

    As for the other arguments being made, yes I can see the 17" as being an appealing desktop replacement. It will have to survive in a shrinking market for desktop-sized computers, but it would be a good one. But it would have to contend with Apple's penchant for exiting markets it believe have no future upside or that it simply doesn't care about, like printers and servers.

  • by Nevering,

    Nevering Nevering Aug 22, 2013 3:07 PM in response to Network 23
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 22, 2013 3:07 PM in response to Network 23

    I would go 18 or 19 inch. Thin, lightweight, fast. It's a win.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 22, 2013 3:15 PM in response to Nevering
    Level 9 (50,861 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 22, 2013 3:15 PM in response to Nevering

    I would go for a laptop the size and weight of the Air with a foldout 27" screen. Just as long as it's fast and thin.

     

    It's a win,

  • by pc2k5,

    pc2k5 pc2k5 Aug 22, 2013 3:32 PM in response to Nevering
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 22, 2013 3:32 PM in response to Nevering

    Why not do a weight test on an 18" or 19" wishlist like MBP and stick it a laptop bag (actually a fake laptop with addtional weights) and see how the WEIGHT difference feel like when walking around the store?

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 22, 2013 3:34 PM in response to pc2k5
    Level 9 (50,861 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 22, 2013 3:34 PM in response to pc2k5

    How heavy is the 18 or 19" laptop?

     

    How much weight should we add to the 'fake' laptop to match?

  • by pc2k5,

    pc2k5 pc2k5 Aug 22, 2013 3:52 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 22, 2013 3:52 PM in response to Csound1

    Well, using a little math and physics, some "extrapolation" can be a ball park estimate of the additional weight.

     

    Or you could just use this:

     

    Display Wars

    http://www.displaywars.com/17-inch-16x9-vs-19-inch-16x9

     

    It appears to be 24% more area in two dimensions. So all things being equal it could be 25% more weight. But Apple, if it ever changed it's mind, could make have hardware options so it might be less than 25% more weight as some of the insides will be empty.

     

    The above URL, Display Wars appears to be a pretty usefull tool, IMO.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 22, 2013 3:55 PM in response to pc2k5
    Level 9 (50,861 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 22, 2013 3:55 PM in response to pc2k5

    pc2k5 wrote:

     

    Well, using a little math and physics, some "extrapolation" can be a ball park estimate of the additional weight.

    And, what did you come up with (including extra power supply capacity, larger battery capacity, extra metal in the case) etc.

     

    Extrapolation? or guess?

  • by pc2k5,

    pc2k5 pc2k5 Aug 22, 2013 4:08 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 22, 2013 4:08 PM in response to Csound1

    Using

     

    http://www.displaywars.com/17-inch-16x9-vs-19-inch-16x9

     

    It look like 24% of whatever a 17" weighs as everything INSIDE the laptop is also extrapolated in typical scenario.

     

    But it apple want the battery to be bigger, it could be more than 24%....

     

    It's still best to add the additional weight in a laptop bad and walk around the store a few times and FEEL the additional weight. For some, it might not be worth it, and for others it might be.....

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 22, 2013 4:16 PM in response to pc2k5
    Level 9 (50,861 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 22, 2013 4:16 PM in response to pc2k5

    pc2k5 wrote:

     

    Using

     

    http://www.displaywars.com/17-inch-16x9-vs-19-inch-16x9

     

    It look like 24% of whatever a 17" weighs as everything INSIDE the laptop is also extrapolated in typical scenario.

     

    But it apple want the battery to be bigger, it could be more than 24%...

    If the battery is not bigger the battery life will be lessened, what use is that? And if the battery is bigger it will be heavier, and if the battery has more capacity it will require a larger charging system. The case will have to be larger, and as it is a drop forging it will need to be more robust (greater twisting forces come from greater lengths of lever) so it will need more metal, or metal with a higher tensile strength. That means more money and/or more metal (which means even more weight). The larger case will require more fan power to get air moving around it as effectively as a smaller case (less internal volume) and the larger battery will produce more heat, etc. More fan power will mean more weight, and heat.

     

    I could keep pointing these factors out, but did you really think this through.

     

    And you want to test acceptability using a 'fake' laptop with weights to approximate the approximation?

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