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  • clipcarl Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    *Dom* wrote:

     

    I agree with your comment, however, keep in mind not everyone lives in NYC and not everyone has a 14-day timeframe on their hands.

     

    I'm leaving for Italy this weekend for an on-site job.  I'll have my faulty MBP with me. No choice.

    Thankfully, I'll be back before my return widow expires.  But what happens if it were not the case?

     

    Since I also purchased an Apple Care coverage, I am pretty safe, I think, but not everyone can afford it.

     

    I hear you, but if you can't test out your new purchase during your 14 day return period you should return it now and buy another when you do have time to test. If you don't take the time to do due diligence and test out a new purchase during the agreed upon time time period then that's no one's fault but your own. It's not Apple's fault if you decide to take a trip and are unable to return your laptop during the return window.

     

    Everyone has Apple Care for the first year so that's not an issue.

  • Dr Sly Level 1 Level 1 (145 points)

    I'm going downtown to the Apple Store and other tech stores, I'll be testing for IR and taking pictures for both LG and Samsung displays on retina MBPs.

     

    Building a case, you know.

  • *Dom* Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)

    rrahimi wrote:

     

    I don't get it. Are you looking for proof on the math? He made an assumption of if X% are faulty, then to get Y in a row your chances are Z. Mathematically it is impossible for so many people to have several faulty systems in a row if it wasn't a widespread issue.

     

    This is analysing the scenario. If you don't agree with math then let's not discuss that.

     

    I do get it. However, even if it's 150.000 people experiencing it, it's nothing among million units is what I am saying. That does not mean the actual problem should be ignored, though. But such high numbers as those given previously are just speculation out of frustration until further notice.

     

    And I feel frustrated too, btw. But instead of speculatiing, I am trying to do my best to solve my problem and help anyone experiencing the same. Speculation is not going to help. Acting will.

  • Dr Sly Level 1 Level 1 (145 points)

    Dom, Apple is not doing its best to solve the problem.

     

    I say that because the official statement I finally got is that there is no problem.

     

    "The engineers have determined that the displays are operating within Apple's specifications".

     

    It's all in our head.

  • *Dom* Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)

    clipcarl wrote:

     

    I hear you, but if you can't test out your new purchase during your 14 day return period you should return it now and buy another when you do have time to test. If you don't take the time to do due diligence and test out a new purchase during the agreed upon time time period then that's no one's fault but your own. It's not Apple's fault if you decide to take a trip and are unable to return your laptop during the return window.

     

    Everyone has Apple Care for the first year so that's not an issue.

    Thing is, I am not really "taking a trip"... a vacation.  I am taking a trip because I have been hired to work in Italy. And before this year ends, I'll also be working in the UK, the US, China and Italy again.

     

    It's still not Apple's fault if I am working freelance and working where I am called.  It shouldn't be my concern either, though, when purchasing an essential tool for my job.

  • retinafan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Dr Sly wrote:

     

    "The engineers have determined that the displays are operating within Apple's specifications".

     

    It's all in our head.

     

    Well, then I guess I will just keep exchanging.  Because my head only sees image retention on LG screens, not on my colleagues Samsung.  I've come to realize that this issue will not be addressed and I kind of thought it wouldn't right from the very start which is why I keep returning every 14 days after veryfying IR with every LG panel I have received.  Although I think I will stop this nonsense once I reach 7 or 8 returns without a Samsung.

  • *Dom* Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)

    Dr Sly wrote:

     

    Dom, Apple is not doing its best to solve the problem.

     

    I say that because the official statement I finally got is that there is no problem.

     

    "The engineers have determined that the displays are operating within Apple's specifications".

     

    It's all in our head.

     

    Yeah, I totally hear you here.  But to be fair, despite my very own frustration and concern, the 14-day return policy works just great so far.  Granted, in many cases it does not solve the problem because people are getting replacements that STILL exibits the problem, but so far, what can Apple do anyway?

     

    I am fairly certain this problem is being looked into, though.  Even if, right now, us, being on the other end of the spectrum do not have satisfying response to our questions.

     

    I know I am not hallucinating when I say my screen has a standard temp close to 4000ºK — thank goodness I haven't experienced the image retention problem! So I guess I'm even in a better situation than yours, even if, work-wise, it just $u©ks.

  • BarrettF77 Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)

    I wrote a couple people including the EIC, Tim, at Engadget.  The reality distortion field is dead and gone and it never had any influence over bad product.  If this happened under Jobs, either he would say this is how it is and you can return it if unhappy, or he would have jumped down some people's throats and made it right with customers and had LG eat the expense. 

     

    Either way, I'm diversifying my computing needs now and Apple is losing a lot of business in my case.  I've given up on ER about the issue as they aren't any more concerned or interested.  They have a 9to5 job and are simply clock punchers in my estimate. 

     

    Apple can continue to delete and edit posts, but it only makes users MORE vocal and in many other areas.  So they are essentially fragmenting the issue and driving the splinter deeper.  So I applaud them for this.  Something needs to act as a wake up call for them.  Stop focusing on profit margins and get back to quality components in their hardware. 

  • *Dom* Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)

    retinafan wrote:

     

    Well, then I guess I will just keep exchanging.  Because my head only sees image retention on LG screens, not on my colleagues Samsung.  I've come to realize that this issue will not be addressed and I kind of thought it wouldn't right from the very start which is why I keep returning every 14 days after veryfying IR with every LG panel I have received.  Although I think I will stop this nonsense once I reach 7 or 8 returns without a Samsung.

     

    Yeah, and unfortunately, right now, that's just what you should do. And what I should do myself.

     

    As I said, even if I got an LG screen at first, I was not experiencing any image retention, but the screen was so yellow it was just a no-thanks-I-can't-accept-this.

     

    I will most certainly return mine yet again, but if the next one comes faulty again, I won't insist and ask for a refund.  I'll just wait for a few months, possibly the next version.

     

    Bummer! I have sold my mid-2010 MBP which was just so great. 

  • transfix Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yeah I had 2 posts removed and there was nothing bad said. I was replying to Dr Sly about his local store experience and the other was just posting an article out today on another site.

     

    Lets see if this gets edited or deleted lol

  • Sound Evolution Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Unfortunatly this kind of pracktice happened as well when Steve was allive. Let me refresh your memory. Like many I was the early adopter of the First MacBook Air in 2008. The "Ultimate" version with very expensive 64GB. SSD. Costed a fortune! Besides overheating and throtteling, there was a huge design flaw in the hinge design. At first the hinge started to become very loose. Eventually the hinge just breaks. I remember for a almost a year Apple was in denial and let people pay huge repair fee's for replacing the screen. Blaming the people they miss handled their MacBook Pro. See a pattern...?

     

    Acusing the customer of using the machine the "wrong" way isn't unfamiliar for Apple.

     

    That said, Apple had personally never let me down. I always got outstandign service, and always got replacements in any faulty event. They even repaired my mothers 4 years old White MacBook that was far out of warranty.

  • HarryHope Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Just spoke with someone from ER. He said that IR is normal and "within specification" even though a tech verified it was reproducible within three minutes of a static white image being present on my display. He also tried to downplay it like it wasn't a big deal.

     

    I asked him if he could send me a new unit with a samsung display and he said, although it was possible, he wouldn't be willing to do it for me. What a shocker...

     

    I think i'm just going to return the unit and get a refund. This is ridiculous.

     

    What really bothers me is that this is getting no media attention or anything when it's clearly a big problem.

  • *Dom* Level 2 Level 2 (170 points)

    Sound Evolution wrote:

     

    Unfortunatly this kind of pracktice happened as well when Steve was allive. Let me refresh your memory. Like many I was the early adopter of the First MacBook Air in 2008. The "Ultimate" version with very expensive 64GB. SSD. Costed a fortune! Besides overheating and throtteling, there was a huge design flaw in the hinge design. At first the hinge started to become very loose. Eventually the hinge just breaks. I remember for a almost a year Apple was in denial and let people pay huge repair fee's for replacing the screen. Blaming the people they miss handled their MacBook Pro. See a pattern...?

     

    Acusing the customer of using the machine the "wrong" way isn't unfamiliar for Apple.

     

    That said, Apple had personally never let me down. I always got outstandign service, and always got replacements in any faulty event. They even repaired my mothers 4 years old White MacBook that was far out of warranty.

     

    I am with you on everything here.

     

    That said, this is not specific to Apple. All companies will always hide in denial and put the blame on you, the customer, for being uneducated and/or stupid.  Sad, but true.

     

    However, like you, through many years of using Apple products, I could not raise a single time I have been let down.  Even if sometimes it's been really annoying and causing problems, in the end, I was always happy with how things were handled at no cost for me.

    That's why despite the hoopla right here, I am still faithful.

     

    Message was edited by: *Dom*

  • clipcarl Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    *Dom* wrote:

     

    No offense, but perhaps you may want to check your math, then.

    You do not point to any math at all but speculation (which is not a sound argument by itself unless it is backed up by numbers).

    ...

     

    The math is very simple. Barry Fisher speculated that the IR rate on LG panels might be as low as 10% (1 in 10). If that were true, the probability that all twelve (actually more but we'll say twelve) of the rMBPs that I have personally tested is 1 in 10 to the 12th power. That works out to be 1 in 1 trillion. This is basic math and it can't be broken down any further. Arguing against it is like arguing against 1 + 1 = 2. Either you believe that greater than 10% of LG panels have the problem or you believe that I have had a 1 in 1 trillion experience. Guess where the smart money is...

     

    Now if we factor in others' similar experience the math gets trickier. It follows logically that if 10% of LG panels is defective and if in this relatively small sample of a few hundred rMBP owners that have reported their experiences you have at least one 1 in a trillion person and several other 1 in a billion and 1 in an million people then the probability of that is comically low.

     

    [ Edited to remove the last bit of math because now that I think of it the additional math isn't correct the way I described it. If their are any mathematicians out there that can explain the odds of having several extremely low probabability events in a small sample please be my guest. ]

  • bjiibj Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    *Dom* wrote:

     

    Barry Fisher wrote:

     

    Again, its just conjecture as to what percentage. 

     

    Obviously, lots of people are having problems, I've seen these type of things happen with new releases, nothing from Apple until they figure out if its something they can fix in firmware, or if they have a design problem.  With all the complaints I would be surprised if the MBP pro team is not looking at this right now.  Still doesn't mean that 70 or 90 or even 10 percent are having problems. 

    Yes, I completely agree with you on that.

     

    Despite frustration and bad experiences, putting out such faulty numbers is just plain silly and irrelevant.  It's not even a good argument because it is a flawed argument.

     

    @bjiibj : show me the source of your information and I'll start believing you.  Chances are, however, that your frustration (understandable to a point) makes you pulling those numbers out of the blue.

    Therefore, your argument only shows your frustration before showing any kind of real evidence.

     

    I've been following this thread for weeks.  And I have enough of a grasp of basic logic to be able to draw conclusions from it.  That is the source of my information.  Come back after you've read pages ~50 to 167 of this thread as I have and then we'll talk.