Q: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

Come on guys, no one here has sufficient data to draw probabbilities or predictions.

We have no idea about the distribution type, the sample size required, the standard deviation, the confidence interval, etc.

But what we *do* have is a lot of people with LG screens which exhibit IR, and no one with a Samsung screen which does.

That's good enough for me.

Don't forget that folks happy with their rMBP, whether they have IR, can see IR at all, or care, won't likely come post here.

Another possibility is that a number of the defective panels, *if* it is not widespread to LG panels in general, come from the same production batch/factory/made at the same time... My last two LG screens had exactly the same manufacturing date and place of origin. So way to go, the likelihood of getting something identically flawed must be a bit higher...

Sly did you go to "that" store to try for a Samsung display?

Dr Sly wrote:

 

Come on guys, no one here has sufficient data to draw probabbilities or predictions.

 

I disagree.  We have several people who have tried 4 - 7 LG displays in a row and found them all to have image retention.  We have other people who have tested multiple displays in stores and found the same thing.  I feel confident in drawing conclusions from this information.

bjiibj wrote:

 

I've been following this thread for weeks.  And I have enough of a grasp of basic logic to be able to draw conclusions from it.  That is the source of my information.  Come back after you've read pages ~50 to 167 of this thread as I have and then we'll talk.

I have been reading each and every post since post 1 here, and sorry, you can brandish "I have enough grasp of basic logic" all you want, this is still NOT evidence.  This is passion, at best — which is extremely different.

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

In the past I've said that I'm going to give Apple some time to come up with a coherent fix to this problem, but the recent reports that Apple's coherent response looks more and more like it's going to be "this is within spec" (several people have recently reported this response from Apple), have prompted me to take faster action.  I'm going to go down to the Apple Store where I bought my rMBP and try to get a Samsung replacement.   A large part of the reason that I've decided to act now is that I am pretty sure that my credit card has a policy that makes challenging purchases easier during the first three months after purchase than afterwards.  And since those three months are up in about a month, I'd like to have some time to come to a reasonable solution with Apple before going down that route.  Which means I should start now.  I'll keep you all posted.

BTW my local Apple store is the one in the Westfield Mall in Santa Clara, CA.   Not sure if anyone else has dealt with IR issues there but if you have and can give any advice, it would be appreciated.

bjiibj wrote:

 

I disagree.  We have several people who have tried 4 - 7 LG displays in a row and found them all to have image retention.  We have other people who have tested multiple displays in stores and found the same thing.  I feel confident in drawing conclusions from this information.

The only conclusion you can draw from that is that it is likely LG screen causing image retention problems.

Which is ONLY part of the problem since I am typing to you from a Samsung screen right now, my previous LG screen did not exhibit the image retention problem, YET this very Samsung screen has a color temperature so hot, it would make any brothel steam and cry.

So you see, passion is not always (clearly never) the best ground for arguing without backing it all up soundly.

*Dom* wrote:

 

clipcarl wrote:

 

I hear you, but if you can't test out your new purchase during your 14 day return period you should return it now and buy another when you do have time to test. If you don't take the time to do due diligence and test out a new purchase during the agreed upon time time period then that's no one's fault but your own. It's not Apple's fault if you decide to take a trip and are unable to return your laptop during the return window.

 

Everyone has Apple Care for the first year so that's not an issue.

Thing is, I am not really "taking a trip"... a vacation.  I am taking a trip because I have been hired to work in Italy. And before this year ends, I'll also be working in the UK, the US, China and Italy again.

 

It's still not Apple's fault if I am working freelance and working where I am called.  It shouldn't be my concern either, though, when purchasing an essential tool for my job.

It is your concern and your responsibility, not Apple's. If it's an essential tool for your job then you can live with IR if you decide not to return in your return window but it is not Apple's obligation to extend that return window because you had to take a trip for work.

Transfix, Apple Store Sainte-Catherine has Samsungs on display too, those are the ones I use to compare side by side with LG ones and show employees how preposterous the difference is (not response/reply from any staff though).

The *other* stores downtown appear to have rMBPs with both Samsung and LG displays, hard to tell which one you might get.

I'm going out with my Visa Platinum in an hour or so and I'm going to buy as many rMBPs as needed until I get a Samsung, then return the rest. That's how I roll. Not a single ounce of sympathy left, not after 6-8 visits and the same horrible display.

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

I've been following this thread for weeks.  And I have enough of a grasp of basic logic to be able to draw conclusions from it.  That is the source of my information.  Come back after you've read pages ~50 to 167 of this thread as I have and then we'll talk.

 

I have been reading each and every post since post 1 here, and sorry, you can brandish "I have enough grasp of basic logic" all you want, this is still NOT evidence.  This is passion, at best — which is extremely different.

 

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

 

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

I expect that you would tell cosmologists that because they haven't gathered data on every star in the universe, they can't come to any conclusions about what stars are made of.

But by all means - please give a reasonable rebuttal to any of the posts in the past page or two detailing why the odds of people getting multiple LG displays with IR in a row are infinitesimal unless the odds of any individual display having IR are high.

I do understand what you mean, bjiibj, I'm just not comfortable drawing conclusions from that :-)

clipcarl wrote:

 

It is your concern and your responsibility, not Apple's. If it's an essential tool for your job then you can live with IR if you decide not to return in your return window but it is not Apple's obligation to extend that return window because you had to take a trip for work.

Umm... No.  Actually, due to timeframe I do NOT 'decide' not to return my product for replacement. I am FORCED to use it no matter what.

Let me break it down to you:  I am for two weeks working in say Italy. I am experiencing those problems.  I can call Apple and ask for a replacement: they'll pick up the computer, wherever I am, and THEN I have to wait another average 3-week to get another machine.

Question: How do I work in the meantime, being away from home, on location, working on assignment?

You are going to say: Go to the nearest Apple Store and exchange your computer there.  That's fine and sound.

However, not every city on Earth has an Apple Store.

Therefore, back to my question.

See the problem?

And you are telling ME this is MY choice not to return it?

Ideally for this to work, I should only order material that is mandatory for my job only when I am on a two-months vacation break?  Really?

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

I disagree.  We have several people who have tried 4 - 7 LG displays in a row and found them all to have image retention.  We have other people who have tested multiple displays in stores and found the same thing.  I feel confident in drawing conclusions from this information.

 

The only conclusion you can draw from that is that it is likely LG screen causing image retention problems.

Which is ONLY part of the problem since I am typing to you from a Samsung screen right now, my previous LG screen did not exhibit the image retention problem, YET this very Samsung screen has a color temperature so hot, it would make any brothel steam and cry.

 

So you see, passion is not always (clearly never) the best ground for arguing without backing it all up soundly.

How long did you have the LG screen that didn't have IR?  Given that you've already replaced it once, I would expect that the answer is somewhere in the neighborhood of a week or two.

If you don't believe the experiences of the people who have posted on this forum, I recommend not reading anymore as there is no point in reading what you don't believe anyway.  If you do believe the experiences of the people who have posted on this forum, then you have to conclude that the problem is widespread.  It is simply incredibly unlikely that people would get multiple LG displays in a row with the problem unless the problem is very widespread.

*Dom* wrote:

...

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

 

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

I will requote what I said to you before. Please explain what you feel is wrong with the math here or what is a matter of "perception":

clipcarl wrote:

 

The math is very simple. Barry Fisher speculated that the IR rate on LG panels might be as low as 10% (1 in 10). If that were true, the probability that all twelve (actually more but we'll say twelve) of the rMBPs that I have personally tested is 1 in 10 to the 12th power. That works out to be 1 in 1 trillion. This is basic math and it can't be broken down any further. Arguing against it is like arguing against 1 + 1 = 2. Either you believe that greater than 10% of LG panels have the problem or you believe that I have had a 1 in 1 trillion experience. Guess where the smart money is...

 

Now if we factor in others' similar experience the math gets trickier. It follows logically that if 10% of LG panels is defective and if in this relatively small sample of a few hundred rMBP owners that have reported their experiences you have at least one 1 in a trillion person and several other 1 in a billion and 1 in an million people then the probability of that is comically low.

I do get it. However, even if it's 150.000 people experiencing it, it's nothing among million units is what I am saying. That does not mean the actual problem should be ignored, though. But such high numbers as those given previously are just speculation out of frustration until further notice.

 

And I feel frustrated too, btw. But instead of speculatiing, I am trying to do my best to solve my problem and help anyone experiencing the same. Speculation is not going to help. Acting will.

It's not speculation. It's analysis.

You flip a coin, Once, chance of tails is 50% (or 1/2)

You flip a coin, Twice, chance of both tails is 50% X 50% = 25% (or 1/4)

You flip a coin, Three times, chance of all tails is 50% X 50% X 50% = 12.5% (or 1/8)

...

Simple, right? Now with coins we know the possibility of tails is 50%. With Retina we don't know the possibility of defective LG. But we do know people have gone up to 7 returns to get a Samsung. That's 6 LGs with IR. My own case was 3 LGs with IR and then I gave up and went for refund.

Being optimistic and assuming half the LGs are faulty, the probability of 6 faulty LGs is (1/2^6), that is 1.56%. That is impressive, but let's say as an individual instance, it might be that we got that one extremely unlucky guy posting on this forum.

But when you get dozens of people going through multiple replacements and getting faulty LGs that probability starts dropping exponentially. That's why I'm saying it's mathematically impossible for this to be not a widespread issue.

@Sly If you score more than one Samsung let me know and I'll quickly go and grab your return lol