Q: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

*Dom* wrote:

 

It is nice to hear your input and I value it as such.

 

However, the soundest response I could formulate from here is just: get lost, and thank you for playing.

 

Not only are you irrational, you are also demonstrating why no one could take your claims seriously.

I rest my case.

What have I said that's irrational? If there are any flaws in my logic or math I'd like to know. My only claim is that I've personally tested at least a dozen LG rMBPs and every one had IR. I've even explained the math of if only 10% of LG panels  are defective why the probability of this happening would be astronomically low. So how am I "demonstrating why no one could take your claims seriously?"

bjiibj wrote:

 

bjiibj: "If you call them within 14 days and they agree to accept your return later, then great; but they are under no obligation to do that."

Do you grasp your silliness, here?

If you return your product within 14 days (as is required for an exchange) how exactly do they accept your return later..?

You're trolling, dude. Bite your fork.

bjiibj wrote:

 

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

I've been following this thread for weeks.  And I have enough of a grasp of basic logic to be able to draw conclusions from it.  That is the source of my information.  Come back after you've read pages ~50 to 167 of this thread as I have and then we'll talk.

 

I have been reading each and every post since post 1 here, and sorry, you can brandish "I have enough grasp of basic logic" all you want, this is still NOT evidence.  This is passion, at best — which is extremely different.

 

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

 

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

 

I expect that you would tell cosmologists that because they haven't gathered data on every star in the universe, they can't come to any conclusions about what stars are made of.

 

But by all means - please give a reasonable rebuttal to any of the posts in the past page or two detailing why the odds of people getting multiple LG displays with IR in a row are infinitesimal unless the odds of any individual display having IR are high.

Although I think that "bjiibj"'s math is sound (and I "suspect" the conclusion he's drawn from it is correct), it really only proves that a high-percentage of a particular batch of LG LCD panels has the image retention defect. I'm quite sure that almost all Apple Store floor models came from a few of the earliest batches. That being said, I still think that this problem is wide-spread, just not widely-diagnosed yet. I feel quite confident that nearly everyone who's purchased an LG-based rMBP in the last 2 months would see the IR issue if they tested for it. I used to be a manufacturing engineer and this looks like a classic case of failure to design for manufacturability on the part of LG. In other words, their design makes it very hard for manufacturing to produce a display without the IR issue. They did not design for 6-sigma (I won't get into that here). So, although I think it's possible for LG to produce LCD panels without issues, their design makes it less probable.

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

bjiibj: "If you call them within 14 days and they agree to accept your return later, then great; but they are under no obligation to do that."

 

Do you grasp your silliness, here?

 

If you return your product within 14 days (as is required for an exchange) how exactly do they accept your return later..?

 

You're trolling, dude. Bite your fork.

Read what you responded to.  Calling them and telling them that you want to return later (after the 14 day period) is NOT the same thing as actually returning within 14 days.  There is no evidence that Apple advertises that they allow people to call within 14 days and ask for an extended return period.

Anyway, I'm done with you.  I don't appreciate being insulted.  You've fallen pretty far off of your high horse and the result is not very pretty.  You're starting to sound so much like High-Death that I really have to wonder if you're not the same person ...

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

bjiibj: "If you call them within 14 days and they agree to accept your return later, then great; but they are under no obligation to do that."

 

Do you grasp your silliness, here?

 

If you return your product within 14 days (as is required for an exchange) how exactly do they accept your return later..?

 

You're trolling, dude. Bite your fork.

No. That's not what you wrote, *Dom*. You wrote that you call them within 14 days but return it later. You then wrote that they are obligated accect the return after the 14 days just because you called them within 14 days because they advertise that. When asked to show where they advertise that you pointed to a link that says nothing of the kind. Now you're posting that you said "if return your product within 14 days" but that's not what you actually posted several times both in this subthread nor in the other one where you talk about your business trip and how Apple has to allow you to return after the return period because you'll be out of town for work.

bjiibj's account of what you said is accurate; yours is not. It's readable by all right here so stop trying to deny what you said.

Canuck1970 wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

*Dom* wrote:

 

bjiibj wrote:

 

I've been following this thread for weeks.  And I have enough of a grasp of basic logic to be able to draw conclusions from it.  That is the source of my information.  Come back after you've read pages ~50 to 167 of this thread as I have and then we'll talk.

 

I have been reading each and every post since post 1 here, and sorry, you can brandish "I have enough grasp of basic logic" all you want, this is still NOT evidence.  This is passion, at best — which is extremely different.

 

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

 

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

 

I expect that you would tell cosmologists that because they haven't gathered data on every star in the universe, they can't come to any conclusions about what stars are made of.

 

But by all means - please give a reasonable rebuttal to any of the posts in the past page or two detailing why the odds of people getting multiple LG displays with IR in a row are infinitesimal unless the odds of any individual display having IR are high.

 

Although I think that "bjiibj"'s math is sound (and I "suspect" the conclusion he's drawn from it is correct), it really only proves that a high-percentage of a particular batch of LG LCD panels has the image retention defect. I'm quite sure that almost all Apple Store floor models came from a few of the earliest batches. That being said, I still think that this problem is wide-spread, just not widely-diagnosed yet.

I think your point is reasonable; most of the rMBP units in Apple stores were likely produced during an early production phase.  So this may narrow the conclusion to "most LG displays from early rMBPs have image retention", and it leaves the door open for the problem having been fixed in later production.  Detecting this is complicated by the lead time of several weeks to a month that it takes for many LG displays to develop IR, so it will take weeks after the point at which bad LG displays are no longer shipped before we'll know it's happened.

*Dom* is clearly trolling.

Please, everyone, just stop responding to him because the thread will go off topic and the thread will get closed. Let's keep things on topic and focused on the IR problem.

Thanks,

Carl

Well I've been watching and following this thread VERY closely and have also gone in and submitted user reviews about the Macbook Retina on the CNET website after my LG experience.  Maybe we'll get some public visibility yet.

clipcarl wrote:

 

*Dom* is clearly trolling.

 

Please, everyone, just stop responding to him because the thread will go off topic and the thread will get closed. Let's keep things on topic and focused on the IR problem.

 

Thanks,

Carl

Agreed; and I apologize for having taken the bait.

To be honest I'm surprised that the thread has lasted this long given some of the exchanges in it (many of which I, shamefully, contributed to!).

My case has come to a conclusion today. My Apple ER called me and told me the engineers declared my "image retention was within Apple's spcifications" (this one is ridiculous!!!) and he gave me the choice to keep my rMBP or ask for a refund.

I selected to have my money back and after that the Online Apple Store called me and told me I could swap my rMBP or have a refund. Again I cose for the money.

I'll send it back next week. In the meantime I'll go to the Apple Store and buy another one, so that I have the full 14 evaluation days.

I think it's silly arguing about Apple's return policy.

We are all in the same boat here... We are all early addoptors and arn't satisfied with the quality control of the main feature of this new product. If you happened to catch the IR issue before 14 days you have the flexablity of being able to return/exchange. The rest of us just have to stick with this until we can hopefully get a satasfectory response from Apple.

stecube wrote:

 

My case has come to a conclusion today. My Apple ER called me and told me the engineers declared my "image retention was within Apple's spcifications" (this one is ridiculous!!!) and he gave me the choice to keep my rMBP or ask for a refund.

 

I selected to have my money back and after that the Online Apple Store called me and told me I could swap my rMBP or have a refund. Again I cose for the money.

 

I'll send it back next week. In the meantime I'll go to the Apple Store and buy another one, so that I have the full 14 evaluation days.

Were you outside of the 14 day window?  And they still accepted your rMBP for refund?

If so, please let me know who you wrote to and how you got this outcome.  I would like to know how to reproduce this should I need to.  Thanks!

bjiibj wrote:

 

Read what you responded to.  Calling them and telling them that you want to return later (after the 14 day period) is NOT the same thing as actually returning within 14 days.  There is no evidence that Apple advertises that they allow people to call within 14 days and ask for an extended return period.

 

Anyway, I'm done with you.  I don't appreciate being insulted.  You've fallen pretty far off of your high horse and the result is not very pretty.  You're starting to sound so much like High-Death that I really have to wonder if you're not the same person ...

Please direct me where exactly i wrote that and I'll make amends.

I did not.  Furthermore, I am not responsible if you (or anyone) assumed I even wrote that.

That said, it is fine by me if you see me as trolling (funny I should raise that flag about you earlier) — I could not care less.

At the end of the day, whether you like it or not, we both (as so many others here) are on the same boat and rhetorics won't save said day.

clipcarl wrote:

 

*Dom* wrote:

...

You may not like it, but that's how it is.  So far, NO MATH is even remotely proving your claims.

Basically what you're putting out is your own perception of an event, just like priests call it a proof there is a god.

 

Sorry, nope. Not reliable.

 

I will requote what I said to you before. Please explain what you feel is wrong with the math here or what is a matter of "perception":

clipcarl wrote:

 

The math is very simple. Barry Fisher speculated that the IR rate on LG panels might be as low as 10% (1 in 10). If that were true, the probability that all twelve (actually more but we'll say twelve) of the rMBPs that I have personally tested is 1 in 10 to the 12th power. That works out to be 1 in 1 trillion. This is basic math and it can't be broken down any further. Arguing against it is like arguing against 1 + 1 = 2. Either you believe that greater than 10% of LG panels have the problem or you believe that I have had a 1 in 1 trillion experience. Guess where the smart money is...

 

Now if we factor in others' similar experience the math gets trickier. It follows logically that if 10% of LG panels is defective and if in this relatively small sample of a few hundred rMBP owners that have reported their experiences you have at least one 1 in a trillion person and several other 1 in a billion and 1 in an million people then the probability of that is comically low.

The math is sound, but unless we know that the LG sample size was distributed evenly among the batches, we can't be sure if this applies to ALL LG-based rMBP laptops ever made (I suspect it does) or only to a few early batches (I'm confident it does).

I think we all need to chill out a bit here. Let's focus on the problem at hand...the IR issue and the way that Apple is handling it.