Q: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

joekljk wrote:

 

Guys every LG is going to have IR it is a result of IPS displays and is a known problem in IPS technology. It just happens that the second source or backup manufacturer (samsung) uses a different technology -- Super PLS not IPS, which in all likelihood is why you don't see IR on the Samsung displays.

 

Yes it is unacceptable, and I wish they would have waited to go all SPLS or IGZO instead of IPS, but they decided to go with AH-IPS displays. My good LG screen has deeper blacks and truer color then my buddies Samsung to be honest, but his Samsung doesn't have IR. So if you do not want IR, have fun with the Samsung lottery, or wait a year until the IGZO displays come out.

...But yes, exactly...It is unacceptable...And that should be enough. It's not fair for those who purchased a retina MBP already. We didn't know. That's not common research or well known fact for a  common user. It's not buyer beware. Not at Apple's prices. What? A year from now they use different manufacturers altogether and we're just screwed? They need to replace our screens...It was their choice to release when they did and use two manufacturers knowing that they would create this lottery system of good vs. bad screens. They gambled. We noticed. They need to fix their mistake. End of story.

Looked up some other manufactured AH-IPS displays, they are exhibiting IR as well.

Reports of IR problems with the new Dell U2713HM monitor --> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=5236a06d7935ec2a8418291a7365fe3a&t=1710005 &page=11.

my-username-was-taken wrote:

 

 

...But yes, exactly...It is unacceptable...And that should be enough. It's not fair for those who purchased a retina MBP already. We didn't know. That's not common research or well known fact for a  common user. It's not buyer beware. Not at Apple's prices. What? A year from now they use different manufacturers altogether and we're just screwed? They need to replace our screens...It was their choice to release when they did and use two manufacturers knowing that they would create this lottery system of good vs. bad screens. They gambled. We noticed. They need to fix their mistake. End of story.

My machine was BTO, and ordered it quite soon after the release. I did see the articles on TUAW and other sites that some people where having issues with image retention. When i got machine, I checked and it had no IR, but after a month it showed its ugly head.. Thing is, if would of known how widespread the issue was, I would of most definitly return my machine within 14 day window, which I'm SOL out of...

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my-username-was-taken wrote:

 

joekljk wrote:

 

Guys every LG is going to have IR it is a result of IPS displays and is a known problem in IPS technology. It just happens that the second source or backup manufacturer (samsung) uses a different technology -- Super PLS not IPS, which in all likelihood is why you don't see IR on the Samsung displays.

 

Yes it is unacceptable, and I wish they would have waited to go all SPLS or IGZO instead of IPS, but they decided to go with AH-IPS displays. My good LG screen has deeper blacks and truer color then my buddies Samsung to be honest, but his Samsung doesn't have IR. So if you do not want IR, have fun with the Samsung lottery, or wait a year until the IGZO displays come out.

 

...But yes, exactly...It is unacceptable...And that should be enough. It's not fair for those who purchased a retina MBP already. We didn't know. That's not common research or well known fact for a  common user. It's not buyer beware. Not at Apple's prices. What? A year from now they use different manufacturers altogether and we're just screwed? They need to replace our screens...It was their choice to release when they did and use two manufacturers knowing that they would create this lottery system of good vs. bad screens. They gambled. We noticed. They need to fix their mistake. End of story.

I agree. Get enough people to make a stink about it and they might do a recall, not sure how they would fix the problem though.

Tadziak wrote:

 

I called Apple about it and they were perfectly honest: "And what do you expect from us now? Refund/Another replacement (probably again with same problem)?

To a certain degree, I can understand their current position beacuse at this time, they do not have a valid technical solution for people complaining about the problem so they only options they can provide are replace, repair or refund.

Given the liklihood that the problem will occur again if you choose to repair/replace, I can understand that they are trying to discourage people from doing this over and over and over, so in many cases the best option for Apple is to give you a refund and hope you buy again later once the issue has been resolved.

Personally, the best option for me probably woudl have been to keep the machine with the promise that they will replace the screen with a "no defects" screen (no IR, no bad pixesl, no mura, good brightness and within reasonable color specs). But again, there is too much variability in screens at this time for them to be able to assure this and there is not yet enough information to know when it might be possible to make such assurances.

What makes this situation so frustrating for me (and many others I believe) is that the machine is 99% awesome in every other way. Even the problems with the screen itself aren't so bad (for most people) that I wouldn't be willing to wait for a promised fix. But at this price, I'm not willing to gamble over $3,000 that Apple's final response won't be something something unacceptable to me.

I'm pretty sure they aren't ignoring the issue internally and there have been some changes since the initial release since it seems like the problem with the LG screens is now taking longer to appear (many people go 1 or 2 weeks with no observable IR only to have it appear later very clearly). But obviously they still haven't resolved the problem and until they have, they'll probably muddle their way through it since enough people aren't complaining that it is still cost effective to keep selling the computers while they try to resolve the underlying issues.

JustSayNo wrote:

 

What makes this situation so frustrating for me (and many others I believe) is that the machine is 99% awesome in every other way. Even the problems with the screen itself aren't so bad (for most people) that I wouldn't be willing to wait for a promised fix. But at this price, I'm not willing to gamble over $3,000 that Apple's final response won't be something something unacceptable to me.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't ignoring the issue internally and there have been some changes since the initial release since it seems like the problem with the LG screens is now taking longer to appear (many people go 1 or 2 weeks with no observable IR only to have it appear later very clearly). But obviously they still haven't resolved the problem and until they have, they'll probably muddle their way through it since enough people aren't complaining that it is still cost effective to keep selling the computers while they try to resolve the underlying issues.

completely agree with you.. I think the smartest thing is to go for refund and wait that apple solves this issue, at least financially. I mean, I wouldn't want a machine that be worth half what I paid for it because this issue. But agree, besides for IR, I really do love 99% of this machine. 

I mean, I wouldn't mind waiting, but the longer I wait the less likely apple will offer a refund or decent solution to this mess. FIne, I'll even shut up about the issue, and tell no one else if Apple refunds this machine.. I just want a decent sollution.. and get on with my life..

JustSayNo wrote:

 

Tadziak wrote:

 

I called Apple about it and they were perfectly honest: "And what do you expect from us now? Refund/Another replacement (probably again with same problem)?

To a certain degree, I can understand their current position beacuse at this time, they do not have a valid technical solution for people complaining about the problem so they only options they can provide are replace, repair or refund.

 

Given the liklihood that the problem will occur again if you choose to repair/replace, I can understand that they are trying to discourage people from doing this over and over and over, so in many cases the best option for Apple is to give you a refund and hope you buy again later once the issue has been resolved.

 

Personally, the best option for me probably woudl have been to keep the machine with the promise that they will replace the screen with a "no defects" screen (no IR, no bad pixesl, no mura, good brightness and within reasonable color specs). But again, there is too much variability in screens at this time for them to be able to assure this and there is not yet enough information to know when it might be possible to make such assurances.

 

What makes this situation so frustrating for me (and many others I believe) is that the machine is 99% awesome in every other way. Even the problems with the screen itself aren't so bad (for most people) that I wouldn't be willing to wait for a promised fix. But at this price, I'm not willing to gamble over $3,000 that Apple's final response won't be something something unacceptable to me.

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't ignoring the issue internally and there have been some changes since the initial release since it seems like the problem with the LG screens is now taking longer to appear (many people go 1 or 2 weeks with no observable IR only to have it appear later very clearly). But obviously they still haven't resolved the problem and until they have, they'll probably muddle their way through it since enough people aren't complaining that it is still cost effective to keep selling the computers while they try to resolve the underlying issues.

Very wise post - I sign under every word of it. Anyway at this point I would really need Apple to make some statement - if it's negative (all IR is within specs and we are not replacing any screens/laptops for that issue) then I can just return the product or live with it, but right now it's really hard to say what the future will bring.

JustSayNo wrote:

 

Tadziak wrote:

 

I called Apple about it and they were perfectly honest: "And what do you expect from us now? Refund/Another replacement (probably again with same problem)?

 

I'm pretty sure they aren't ignoring the issue internally and there have been some changes since the initial release since it seems like the problem with the LG screens is now taking longer to appear (many people go 1 or 2 weeks with no observable IR only to have it appear later very clearly). But obviously they still haven't resolved the problem and until they have, they'll probably muddle their way through it since enough people aren't complaining that it is still cost effective to keep selling the computers while they try to resolve the underlying issues.

You are going to find IR on every LG AH-IPS display. It is reproduced because of multiple variables the main one being heat. Again, it is a known problem with IPS technology. It is a major drawback that Apple should have been more aware of. It is one of those things that a numbers guy like Tim Cook would decide to go with instead of waiting or using a different display technology altogether. Especially since they just had to come out with the Retina and the regular mbp version at the same time right???

An old post on IPS displays causing IR ~~> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1393871

*sigh* Ordered 06/22/12, LG display, of course there's IR. Will also be making a "genius" appointment. I too feel it may be neccesary to RUFUSE anything less than a Samsung, or get a refund and wait, even though there's nothing more than I want for apple to take my $2400 and keep it for good. I just want a machine that performs identical to ones coming off the production lines side by side. I have seen the Samsung, it IS brighter, theres NO IR, colors DO seem more vivid/accurate.... even if it was only certain configs(like 2.7/16/768) I could deal with there being a diff display used, but its a pot luck. This is unacceptable.

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joekljk wrote:

Guys every LG is going to have IR it is a result of IPS displays and is a known problem in IPS technology. It just happens that the second source or backup manufacturer (samsung) uses a different technology [...]

Yes, it is unacceptable. The reality is that one manufactor uses one process and another, a different one. One has IR issues, the other does not. But here's the thing, that's irrelevant. The fact is that as a consumer I was not given the option. I was presented with a product and, as it turns out, in some cases I may receive an inferior product compared to what another consumer, who paid the same price for the "same" product, received. That's not acceptable.

It's not my fault Apple needs to source parts from two suppliers. It's not my fault those suppliers have different methods. It would be one thing if I were given a choice of a lower price for a lower-quality display, but I was not. I was told I was getting a "stunning" display.

In fact, Apple has a support article, HT2807, which addresses image persistence. This article references their displays and the iMac line. It was updated recently and yet still does not reference the rMBP line. Therefore, how am I supposed to know what I'm receiving before buying when I am provided with incomplete information?

I can say for certain that knowing all of this ahead of time would have definitely resulted in me making a different decision. I would have gone with a 13" MacBook Pro and done some aftermarket upgrades for RAM and SSD. However, I was led to believe based on the material information Apple provided that I was receiving a product that operated a certain way. In fact, it does not. It bothers me that some users receive Samsung displays and don't have IR issues while others (like us) receive LG and do. Again, if we paid different prices or had specifically chosen a different display through BTO options or different models, that would be different. That's not the case though, we ordered the same product and received different products. Theirs works, mine does not.

This is not some entry-level laptop from Best Buy for $299. At its cheapest its over $2000. That's a lot for a personal computer these days. Unless money is not an issue for a person, this is a lot of cash to just throw at something and then find out it doesn't work as expected.

Exactly what I told Applecare and they gave me a refund 2 months in. That is about the best your going to get from Apple though a refund, your not going to get a Sammy replacement without going through the lottery. Everyone should just keep ordering and replacing within 14 days intil they get a Samsung -- that will certainly get their attention

Please everyone, continue to fight, return them again, and again... get a refund, reorder, submit feedback, continue to post on this forum.

What about that statement needed to be edited out?

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My post have been edited too.. watch this post diseappear.. One was deleted, the other censored.. Isn't this a free country???

Lets get another huge thread started over at macforums, if apple is the one editing our posts.

joekljk wrote:

You are going to find IR on every LG AH-IPS display. It is reproduced because of multiple variables the main one being heat. Again, it is a known problem with IPS technology. It is a major drawback that Apple should have been more aware of. It is one of those things that a numbers guy like Tim Cook would decide to go with instead of waiting or using a different display technology altogether. Especially since they just had to come out with the Retina and the regular mbp version at the same time right???

I realize that there are tradeoffs and decisions that need to be made in situations like this, and I can actually understand why it might be a reasonable decision to use LG IPS displays in the iPad since the vast majority of users would enver use the iPad in a way that would reveal IR. And for the few that do...well, you can't make everyone happy.

But for the rMBP, if they were aware of these issues and chose to use these displays anyway....well, that was simply a bad decision in my opinion. The usage conditions are very different and a problem that may only arise in 1/100,000 cases for an iPad becomes one that can arise in 1/1,000 (or maybe 1/500) for an rMBP.

You can't expect someone to make the right decision every time, so it's a matter of how a person/company responds when they've made a bad decision that really defines them as a person/company. I can understand that Apple wouldn't want to make any statements prematurely given the impact it could have on the business, but since this hasn't bubbled up in the press too visibily, I can see that they think they still have time to work on the issue before making a public statement (or just deciding to ignore it indefinitely if it doesn't get any bigger).

I think it is a good thing that this thread is still going strong and that people are still posting updated information, since that's probably the only thing that will push Apple to realize the scope and severity of the problem. And hopefully for our sake, the problem is as big and severe as we believe it to be and Apple will realize they need to do something about it.

That said, while I was chomping at the bit for the last 2 years waiting to get the rMBP (that is, the next significant revision after the Unibody MBPs), I'm at the point where I've almost given up on getting the current gen rMBP and am now very tempted to keep using my 2008 MBP and wait for the Haswell update next year. There should be solid improvements in CPU, GPU, and Power Management that I'm very excited to see how Apple leverages them next year. The current rMBP has just left a bad "first gen early adopter" taste in my mouth and by the time this is resolved, it will probably be 1/2 to 2/3 of the way to being last year's model.

The sad thing is that I still can't wait to buy my next MacBook because none of the Windows-based computers have the same elegance and balance of performance, functionality and usability.