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  • dbainbridge Level 1 (115 points)

    Sound Evolution wrote:


    I can tell everyone, that they slightly changed the rMBA design. I have a week 43 and a week 41 side by side as told in my previous post. The upper shell seems different. It is slightly thinner (this is not a good thing, since it flex more) and my suspicous is right by discovering that the week 43 is 0.2KG. lighter. They changed "something" in the display shell, or it are different manufactuer tollerances.

    Have you done any precise measurements to check its dimensions?   If this is true they have not updated the tech specs yet.

  • rrahimi Level 3 (615 points)



    Think I can get a note from Apple for my employer that says I need to cut my work time in half so I can let the screensaver run for the other half?

    @nt wrote:


    Accept the IR and do what this article says.



    If not, get another computer.  The pros out weigh the cons in my opinion.  This machine is awesome.  Also, get rid of these darn gray backgrounds and stop observing it.  If it interferes with your work return it.  I am still getting used to the speed of this thing.  I am music producer and this machine enables me to do stuff I couldn't do with most computers.  Helps with the creativity when your computer is as fast as the ideas coming to you when composing music.    


    As you sarcastically implied, anyone who suggests screen saver as a solution to IR is irrefutably an idiot. Screen saver was a preventative measure to the ancient problem when pixels could actually burn out.


    Now that Samsung won't be building more displays for Apple, everyone will be stuck with LG and all LGs have IR. I would suggest a non-Retina MBP or a non-Apple laptop.

  • armin n Level 1 (0 points)

    agree. boy apple is screwing up big time. going after sammy and hence loosing their best supplier. apple is a joke today. making crappy products and suing sammy because they are ****** afraid of samsung competition. apple cant produce a lcd itself thats half as good as sammys.

  • DomdiDom Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm as far from an Apple fanboy (or fanboy of any company) as you can get and your statement sounds ridiculous to even myself. If you're going to measure Apple based on this rmbp and their handling of all it's problems then maybe you can say "crap" but "crappy products"? Come on, get real. My wife's 4s for example is great (for her) and people that use Apple computers for work are not just fanboys. Clearly their computers are better than alternatives to get their specific work done I would think.

  • srhwang Level 1 (0 points)

    For example the iPhone 5. After Steve Jobs, I see a decline.

  • RoverTX Level 1 (0 points)

    If its true that they are no longer using Samsung and instead will just be using LG for screens like this then I can't afford to keep using Apples.


    Unless LG has a major quality jump there is no reason for me to take on the additional risk of (a) a computure with a crappy resale value because of a bad screen, (b) messing up implementing a design because of IR effecting colors and or lines, (c) having to replace the screen every 6 months because of major IR problems and having to go with out a computer for up to a week....


    I have already started with my Desktops, went out and built a rig, next step is to transition my work flow over to Ubuntu.


    PS: If this is about price with Apple I think most people buying a laptop that is this expsenisve would be willing to pay a few hundreded bucks more to not have these silly issues.


    PS 2: I have said it once and I will say it again to ya'll that are saying the Samsung screens are more yellow then the LGs, yes they are, but that means they are actually closer to true white. Its not a bad thing, its a good thing..... It just seems extreme becaue the LGs are all out of wack. Thats of course if your seing what I am seeing god only knows with this computer......

  • MarkRHolbrook Level 1 (135 points)

    Well I'm going to ring in as the proud new owner of a retina MBP that arrived today.


    Yes... I've only had it 6 hours.  I don't know yet if IR will become a problem.  I will watch it carefully but as I mentioned earlier, I'm programmer, not a graphic artist so while the retina display is nice, what I was really after is the large RAM and Flash.  The extra space of the retina in full resolution mode is very nice too.


    So 6 hours into it.   I've installed most programs I use daily including VMWare Fusion.  After it was installed I copied over my two Windoze 7 VMs that I need to run and fired them both up.  Both are using 2gb of RAM and 2 processor cores.  I started long compile jobs in each.


    While this was doable on my 2010 MBP it groaned mightly under the stain running its fans at full speed.  The retina MBP simply hummed.  It got a tiny bit warmer but not much.  The fans never exceeded 3000 RPM.  It was pretty amazing and I think I'm gonna love working on this machine.  (assuming of course IR doesn't get so bad I can read my code hours later).


    At one point today I needed to leave for a doctors appointment.  Since this machine was connected to the LAN and a USB disk I left it to continue synching and copying.  I took my 2010 MBP to the doctor appointment to wait for my son for 90 minutes.  This was just after having the new retina model for about 3 hours.  I could not believe how bad I felt the screen was on the 2010!  These retina displays (when good) can be addicting.


    Anyway for those of you monitoring this thread and trying to make a decision you really do need to make this decision yourself.  I'm 100% sure there are people here that have had crappy screens.  I'm also 100% positive that there are people here that had terrible IR and they are graphic artists or presentors.  Either way I know these people were not happy but everyone needs to understand that being happy is a personal thing.


    In my case I needed the speed, space, RAM etc.   I took the plunge and so far (granted only 6 hours in) I'm loving it. 


    Just decide for yourself.  Remember that these forums are mostly visited by people with problems.  There are probably lots of rMBP owners that are just fine.

  • shayster98 Level 1 (35 points)

    Is your display made by LG or Samsung? You can download this small app I made that identifies your display manufacturer here.


    Try to tell which maker manufactured your screen just by eyeballing it before checking in Terminal or using the app. You may be surprised by how easily you're able to tell, based on the issues both are having.

    Remember that these forums are mostly visited by people with problems.  There are probably lots of rMBP owners that are just fine.

    While I wish you were right, and that does make a lot of sense, it's actually the fact that most people don't notice the problem. Which is fine; I wouldn't have noticed the image persistence (probably not anyway) if I hadn't seen this thread before ordering. However, there is strong evidence that all LG-made screens develop IR at some point, whether it be a week in or a month in.

  • MarkRHolbrook Level 1 (135 points)



    Mine is an LG.  Ran the terminal command and verified it.  Now on your idea of comparing it BEFORE running the terminal command, well I don't have a samsung sitting side-by-side to compare to.  What I do know is that if I sit this display beside my MBP2010 without retina the difference is stunning and I mean STUNNING.  This display is brighter, crisper and in my use through 7 hours today I have not noticed any IR.  Granted I've read that it takes time to appear and it still might.  But so far, right out of the box.  Nothing.


    I like this display so much that when I went to my doctor appointment with the older laptop I didn't enjoy working on it and that was after just a few hours on the retina.


    On whether I'm right or not you raise a good point.  The problem may exist.  People simply may not notice it.  Either way to me that results in a "happy" user.  My point is simply that what you read in this 350+ page thread is the people that either have noticed or really were bothered by their displays.


    I think if we went through this thread and counted up the unique number of rMBPs seen in this thread we are talking perhaps 350 pages times a maximum of say 20 posts per page that would be a maximum of 7000 unique MBPs.  I would have to venture that Apple has sold quite a few more than that and I'd say my 7000 number from this thread is really high because there are lots of duplicate posters.


    So my point is that the existence of this thread shows that there is a problem, at least with some rMBPs. Perhaps with all non-samsung rMBPs.  The problem may be noticable only in specified conditions so that myself, grandma checking her email, or the teenybopper posting on facebook would never notice.  On the other hand the problem is very real to those that depend up on the display for true graphic work which is what the Mac made its name on.


    So I do not discount it.  But I wanted to simply say that the "problem" even if it exists in all rMBPs is going to have different effects on different people.  LIke grandma who would never even know what IR is to myself that probably won't care to the graphic designer whom it will drive them nutz.


    What I don't agree with is the people calling Apple products crap for this.  I do agree that Apple not coming out and acknowledging it is frustrating and probably will cost them some customers and sales.  That bothers me more.  If the CEO had simply said:  Hey we got problems with iOS6 and maps and oh by the way, those of you suffering with the IR problem on the rMBP, never fear we got your back we are working on it!   Don't you think this thread would be a ton shorter?

  • shayster98 Level 1 (35 points)

    I totally agree with pretty much everything you said.


    Sorry if I wasn't clear about identifying the screen. I meant trying to figure out what company it was made by just based on the known problems of both displays; people are saying Samsungs are too yellow and have dead pixels and LGs aren't bright enough, both out of the box.


    Which, by the way, is odd to me. I've only had this one LG screen (week 35 build computer), so I've never had a Samsung to compare it to. However, I've been here since the beginning of this thread, and people used to complain about how the LGs were too yellow and way too dim and the Samsungs' whites were cool.


    Now, it's changed as recently Samsungs are being deemed yellow but still bright, while LGs are perfectly white and less bright than the Samsungs but still perfectly reasonable.


    My LG-made screen was actually like what people are saying now. I got the computer in late August, and I've still stuck with it. Based on what people were saying at the time, I was expecting a warm tint. However, the whites are cooler than my iMac's whites. It's also sufficiently bright. It really surprised me.


    I wouldn't have any problem with it except the fact that it has minimal IR. Image editing in Photoshop is crucial for me for schoolwork, and inaccuracy is not an option.

  • srhwang Level 1 (0 points)

    Yeah, even with minimal issues it all boils down to this:


    Do you care enough?


    I for one have a problem where I can not live with any issues, even if it may not be apparent to me in real-world usage, because just the mere fact that it has an issue will eat away at my soul for as long as I have the rMBP. Call me anal retentive, it's just who I am.

  • Canuck1970 Level 1 (0 points)

    srhwang wrote:


    Yeah, even with minimal issues it all boils down to this:


    Do you care enough?


    I for one have a problem where I can not live with any issues, even if it may not be apparent to me in real-world usage, because just the mere fact that it has an issue will eat away at my soul for as long as I have the rMBP. Call me anal retentive, it's just who I am.



    I, too, suffer from OCD (but within reasonably socially acceptable limits).


    I think if all rMBPs had the same problem, I probably could have lived with mild IR (not the severe IR that I had though), but the fact that I knew that the Samsung displays did NOT have the problem just ate away at me. So, I b*tched about it early, often, and on multiple fronts. The result is that I got what I wanted. However, after reading this thread over the last few months, I'm not so sure that I would have been successful if I had just started the fight now. I just pray to God that nothing goes wrong with mt gorgeous Samsung display, because I'd hate to go back to the LG again.


    Once you take the red pill, you can't untake it.


  • Canuck1970 Level 1 (0 points)



    I've had a theory bouncing around in my head for the last month and I thought I'd share it with you guys.


    From this thread we've established that incidents of image retention on LG displays are temporary. It occurs and then eventually fades away.


    We've also established (well, not conclusively, but good enough for me at least) that heat makes the problem worse. In other words, incidents of image retention are not as pronounced when the display has an air conditioner's cool breeze blowing on it, but is noticeably worse when it's not being kept cool.


    We've also noticed that the image retention issue seems to get worse over time. In some cases, rMBPs have no IR out of the box, but most LG displays (possibly all) seem to eventually exhibit image retention (this last one can't really be proven until people have owned them for longer).


    My theory?

    I think that an LG display's susceptibility to the image retention issue increases with exposure to heat and it never get's better. For instance, your rMBP may be fine for the first 3 weeks and then, after your first weekend spent gaming on it, you start noticing IR appearing after 10 minutes. It stays that way for a month and then, after taking your rMBP to Mexico on vacation and Facetiming your family every day from the beach, the IR now appears in 3 minutes and is very severe (i.e. you even notice it on picture backgrounds).


    Why do I think this?

    Well, my rMBP was intially fine, with no IR.

    Then, one day, while my screen saver was on, but my machine had not yet gone to sleep, I closed the lid and put it in my laptop bag. I didn't think much of it though, because I'd made sure that it was configured to go to sleep when I closed the lid.

    Anyway, that was around 9:00pm.

    Then, around midnight as I was falling to sleep, I heard this sound of air rushing out of the floor vent (or at least that's what I thought it was), but it sounded weird, like it was being obstructed. It turns out that a Mac OSX update dialog had popped up while the screen saver was on and, since it wasn't acknowledged, the laptop didn't go to sleep when I closed the lid.

    In other words, it had been baking in my laptop bag for 3 hours.

    My rMBP was soooooo hot, you could barely touch it. The fans were screaming, but it wasn't able to cool properly because there was no cool air to draw into it.

    Anyway, shortly after that I started noticing the IR and I started following this thread.

    Also, we had a particularly warm summer, and my loft apartment isn't air conditioned.

    Needless to say, for weeks on end it was about 5 to 10 degrees warmer in my computer area than a typical air conditioned office would be.


    The result?

    The IR got worse.

    The time it took to exhibit IR dropped to less than a minute.

    The time it took to recover from IR increased.

    It never improved.


    I ended up taking my rMBP into an authorized Apple dealer (NOT the Apple store) and had them plead with Apple, on my behalf, to let them replace my screen. Apple agreed to "make an exception" in my case and the dealer replaced it under warranty. I got a perfect Samsung.


    So, I'm not sure if this is a design issue, a manufacturing issue, or a design-for-manufacturability issue (I suspect the latter), but it's not good, and I think that heat plays a part. If I'm correct, the fact that many of you seem to have perfect LG displays, may simply be because the weather is cooler now. Who knows what's going to happen when summer hits again, right around the time a lot of 1 year warranties run out.


    I'm just saying. Think about it.


    I hope I'm wrong though.

  • Mad_Mac_Man Level 1 (0 points)

    Well, I hate to the bearer of potentially more bad news:


    On that note, tomorrow morning in San Jose, Calif., Apple will likely introduce the 13-inch Retina MBP. Hopefully, the problems with the 15" will have made a difference for soon-to-be 13" rMBP owners.

  • alwaysforever Level 1 (75 points)