Q: MacBook Pro Retina display burn-in?

Vertigro, this is exactly why I dislike the genius bar.  I'd almost rather sell the product rather than deal with the idiot bar.  I always end up waiting and helping other customers out while I'm there.  I'm so bored I often start asking others why they are there to try and help them, and usually I do.  It somewhat pleases me that I can help them even though it ****** the idiot bar off.  But if they ran on time, I wouldn't be bored. 

I'd like a retina MBP, but between the screen faults and the fact apple likes to make its customers beta testers, I'm on a apple product diet for a while.  Overpriced, undertested, and simply unbelievable they have this much inconsistency in representative training.  

The idea that any and every screen will develop burn in or image retention is simply not true. This is outright lying, or sheer incompetence.

I have six displays at home, a MBA plus Samsung screen, and a rMBP with three other displays (two Dells, one Apple Cinema Display).

I have owned about 30-35 computers since the late 80s, and many more external monitors, at home or at the workplace. This is a ridiculous claim.

For instance, my Apple Cinema Display 27" (version prior to Thunderbolt, so at least 2 years old) is on many hours a day, and I disable my screen saver when I am sticking around. I can display various windowed apps on it for minutes to an hour at a time. Never had one single IR issue with it.

Even the ugly arse Dell displays exhibit no IR at all. And they certainly are inferior in quality to my ACD and rMBP displays!

Apple is producing hardware at an ever increasing rate, and unfortunately I see this as translating into poor quality control.

None of my pre-Intel Apple hardware had display issues, in fact, all of my friends/colleagues' iBooks G3, G4 etc. had *identical* display outputs, in terms of coloration, contrast, etc.

Ever since Apple took over a sizeable share of the market with Intel laptops, phones, and tablets, there are now more and more discrepancies in terms of quality and uniformity to their own 'standards'.

No two iPhone displays I see around me look the same, and it's certainly not because of calibration... My 3rd gen iPad has a great display (I changed it once 2 months ago because of stuck pixels, mind you), but one of my iPhone 4 and my current iPhone 4S are yellowish in a sickly way...

My rMBP has this stupidly easy IR which occurs pretty much 2 to 3 minutes into using clear/white windowed apps then switching to darker/gray backgrounds.

It's embarrasing and ridiculous. It looks nothing like a pro screen on a pro computer. The question is, if the ghosting is so obvious and quick to reproduce, how come it got through with quality control in the first place?

Sounds like someone at LG Corp should get his pink slip.

^agreed.

I was forgiving with the issue even after my third replacement...but what is really unacceptable in my opinion are the apple representatives who talk down to you like you're an idiot and pretend like the issue is all in your head.

If the genius was honest about it and said, Yes its a common issue and were working on fixing it, I would have left with a smile. Instead he had to cross the line.

Makes you wonder, if he wasn't outright lying and actually thought it wasnt an issue, do these guys live under a rock? his job is as an apple tech, and he doesn't even know about this?

I think HE needs a pink slip.

I have been following this thread very closely as I am a new owner of a rMBP with an LG screen 2.6/16/512.  There seem to be 3 main owners of the new rMBP fall into.

A. Owners of the MBPr with a Samsung screen are not experiencing any Image Retention Issues

B. Some Owners of the MBPr with an LG screen are experiencing Image Retention Issues to varying degrees

C. Some Owners of the MBPr with an LG screen are not experiencing any Image Retention Issues

Really, it's the users in Category B that have an issue.  Folks in category A or C seem to be fine.  The question then becomes what percentage of users are in this category B? 

Is apple aware of this?  Look at the size of this thread.  They absolutely are.  Issues like this get discussed at the highest levels internally.  As long as it is contained (which it is) means they will never come out with a public statement about this.  They'll let users return it or replace the screen under warranty.

Are they taking steps to fix it?  I'm sure they are but it may be a very complex issue without an identified root cause.

In summary, I think the real cause for concern here is what happens to someone who is past their 14 day return/exchange period and notices a ghosting issue and Apple geniuses disagree that there is an issue?  Nobody wants a punk kid to tell them there is no issue.  This to me is why people are fighting for Samsung screens and are now holding off their purchase until they see how this all falls out.

My overall hunch is that the folks that fall into category B will start to diminish over time. 

Let's see.

vertigro wrote:

 

I tried. Applecare toldme that they were unable to handle the return because I have to deal directly with the store.

Time to claim it against your CC as faulty goods and be done with it. Move on to something else.

Agreed, Vertigro.

Retifan, I agree with all that you say, but let's face it: Apple employees follow Apple's corporate culture, which goes by the ideology that one does not ask for forgiveness, nor does it ever acknowledge any shortcoming.

It's a very strong atmosphere of secrecy and unapologetic service. I believe it makes them look strong and in control. The alternative would be to look weak and have shortcomings to exploit, in the eyes of competitors, shareholders, and fan base.

Observe and analyze the level of language involved in an Apple Store for the Genius appointments. I have only heard one person apologize personally to me (for the issue of the bad Nvidia 8600M GT video cards in pretty much all of the MacBook Pros from 2008), and that person was the Apple Store manager.

Geniuses only use words in carefully crafted questions and answers which are meant to help you fix a problem, nothing more. They apparently have training for that. They use 'assertive' sentences such as 'let's fix your problem', and 'I hope this will be satisfactory', they won't use Q&As such as 'You have a problem? Oh that's sad!' or 'Once again, let me apologize on behalf of Apple for this unfortunate issue with faulty hardware'...

Having said that, I love Apple products and I ususally receive fast and effective service. I am really only disappointed in two things:

1- quality control (iPhone antennas, laptop display issues, some outstanding software bugs taking a lot of time to fix...)

2- the whole secrecy and unacountability when it comes to certain faulty hardware which would warrant recalls or publicly shared advisories and related solutions (faulty video chipsets, swelling batteries, our poor displays, etc.)

I understand that I am buying from Apple, and their corporate culture is impressive, strong, etc. But I am also buying expensive hardware and expecting the cream of the crop at every purchase.

Peace out

Dr Sly

I agree with Dr Sly, I upped the spec because I wanted top notch hardware, I could buy 4 similar power laptops for the same price, but none with the retina screen, it's that screen that sold the MBPr to me, and so I expect it to live up to Apples hype :)

One thing I can't understand, if apple are aware this is mostly a problem with LG screens, why when they get a return from a customer like me, who is obviously sensitive to the issue, don't they ensure the replacement has a Samsung screen ?

I am currently watching the UPS tracking if my replacement travelling from shanghai via most countries in the EU (it seems a long list LOL) to the Uk, and watching my return MBPr tracking data (via TNT). Both journeys are being paid for by Apple. I can't believe that they want to keep paying transport, yet if they do to me as they seem to do to many others here, and give me another substandard screen, they will be getting that one back too.

What a waste of everyone's time and effort (and Apples money)

Hello,

Well, it looks like I spoke too soon earlier.

To really replicate this problem, set your desktop background to the darkest of the 3 solid gray backgrounds that come with OS X. Then, open up a picture of a black and white checkerboard.

I opened up this one (below) with Preview and blew it up until the Preview app-window filled the screen.

Then, cover your screen with something opaque so that you can see the minimize button for Preview, but not the checkboard pattern itself. This will prevent your retinal-retention from confusing the issue.

After about 15 minutes, minimize the checkerboard image and uncover your screen. You will likely see the image pretty clearly. It stayed on my rMBP for a while (i.e. one reboot to rule out software + 10 to 15 minutes until it faded from view).

Here's the thing though...

I never saw this problem until I read this thread or performed this test. My display has been great so far. So, I really don't plan on returning it, because I don't think it's going to be an issue for me. I do have the 3-year Apple Care though, so if it get's worse, I'll just get them to fix it.

Cheers,

Peter

Picnaut wrote:

 

Hello,

 

Well, it looks like I spoke too soon earlier.

 

To really replicate this problem, set your desktop background to the darkest of the 3 solid gray backgrounds that come with OS X. Then, open up a picture of a black and white checkerboard.

Uncle!  I never saw the Image Retention issue on my LG display until I ran your test.  Even after 15 minutes it was so light I hardly noticed it and it went away only after 2 minutes.  Now I am curous though if any Samsung screen owner experiences the issue running this particular test.

Hi retinafan,

I'd be interested to the results on the Samsung displays as well.

Wow!

With that darkest of the grays as the background, I'm really seeing the issue now. Web pages that are open for only a few minutes, the dock (I enabled auto-hide). I wonder if it's because that particular color of gray is exactly half-way between absolute black and absolute white. None of the other colors are near as bad.

Well, this is kind of dissappointing, but I still don't think I'm motivated by it enough to return my laptop. I have too much to do and the only time I see this issue is when I have my rMBP setup in a non-typical way.

So, I guess I'll keep watching though.

Cheers,

Peter

Kinda makes you think you are getting something less for the same money compared to someone who ends up with a Samsung display.  Unless of course someone with a Samsung display sees the slightest of image retention with this test.   Nice job nailing this one Picnaut.

All speculation:

But i'm guessing dark grey requires the least crystal shift to display and therefore when flicking back to it you are seeing the slight degrees where the crystals did not shift fully to represent the dark grey and therefore your image retention.

Other colors probably require the crystals to shift more and therefore you get less image retention as less crystals conform to their previous state to such a degree as they did when switching to dark grey.

That'd be my theory if I had to come up with one.

I got a samsung and i'm not even bothering to look for IR. As long as I dont notice it, its not a concern.

Did your test and got same results as you. After 20 minutes I saw the checkboard pattern. It did however go away after 2-5 minutes. Reading another persons post I also auto-hide the dock and uTorrent shows up REAL clear but i can see it fading fairly quickly.

In real life I would never notice this but I suppose the question is the issue is there. Should I return it or not? I have Only 2 days left of my 14 day return policy as it was delivered to me not last friday but the friday prior.

Also as its my only computer I do not want to ship it back to them and then twiddle my thumbs without a computer waiting for a new one. How to avoid?

Angelus, there is not one person at Apple that cares unless you call and they work with you.  For this amount of money I don't think I am going ot keep it.  I will play roulette for awhile but if/when that fails I will just wait it out until this technology gets proven a little more I guess.