FM radio for iPhone!, FM radio for iPhone!

ChitlinsCC wrote:

*The whole point of the article is not whether it can be done, but why it is not being done. Customer service vs. shareholder profits <

And that is not an appropriate topic of discussion for these forums.

It is a discussion about something that can't be discussed, it is not a question regarding a technical issue. I'm unclear about what they mean about Sprint, are the saying they have somehow come up with a way to activate the chip and add an antenna without changing the hardware? That makes no sense.

If the discussion is about why it is not being done then that is clearly outside the ToU here and can't be definitively answered by anyone here. Can you understand that. And discussions of customer service versus shaeholder profits is out of bounds.

> You keep missing the fact that there is no antenna connection.

Nope, didn't miss that point at all. It's not been proven by anyone that this is the truth. In fact, given that Apple was testing this feature by developing their own FM apps several years ago, it's more far more likely there is an antenna connection. And Lawrence has said repeatedly in the past that they "don't include an FM receiver," which has been proven false. So why should we buy into his comments on this topic, too? He may be right about the antenna, but his past history on the topic doesn't persuade me.

You are correct... only Apple can change it. That's the point of the discussion, to encourage Apple to change it if enough folks show they want it. Or to explain why they turned it off beyond "consumers prefer streaming", which doesn't mean they can't, only that they won't because streaming revenue is way better for them they apps that provide free access to alternative ways of consumer entertainment. You'll never get change if you never bring it up.

That's the point of the discussion, to encourage Apple to change it if enough folks show they want it

Then you should bring it to Apple's attention; they do not participate here. And, for anyone who is not familiar with these:

https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-5952

In particular:

Stay on topic. Apple Support Communities is here to help people use Apple products and technologies more effectively. Unless otherwise noted, do not add Submissions about nontechnical topics, including:

1. Speculations or rumors about unannounced products.
2. Discussions of Apple policies or procedures or speculation on Apple decisions.

Stick by your guns, amigo... folks are missing the true points:

...

NPR's Robert Siegel spoke with Jeff Smulyan, the point man on this issue for the NAB.

Smulyan is CEO of Emmis Communications, an Indiana-based corporation that owns radio stations across the U.S.

[#ed emphasis is mine]

1. Most smartphone models come with a built-in FM feature.
2. Samsung, Apple and LG are among those who have not switched on the chip, but
3. HTC and Motorola chips haven't been blocked, Smulyan says.
4. Sprint has turned on the FM chip for phones on its network.

...

The National Association of Broadcasters has been asking mobile makers to change this. But the mobile industry, which profits from selling data to smartphone users, says that with the consumer's move toward mobile streaming apps, the demand for radio simply isn't there.

Full disclosure: NPR, along with the NAB, has been part of a lobbying effort to require this free radio feature to be enabled. In 2013 they teamed up to create a free app that allows for free FM listening on smartphones.

I think these points answer the question as to why, don't you? Partnerships, strategic alliances, profits

ChitlinsCC wrote:

(with respect also to my neighbor to the West, deggie's comments - this is not a debate, but a vigorous discussion and an opportunity for me to learn from my betters)

I see your point - begging the question "What 'receiving/transmitting' antennae already exist in these phones for GPS (satellites are a LONG way off), cellular, etc.? and why would these not be sufficient for FM? (the signals are all around us anyway?)

::sigh:: Once you understand how radios work this answer is easy. And If you don't it's impossible to understand. But I'll try. Radio waves have different frequencies. AM is 550 to 1600 Hz. FM is 88 - 106 Mhz. Cellular is 700 - 2200 Mhz. (short wave, which was mentioned, is 3 - 30 Mhz). Each frequency has an associated wavelength. The wavelength is the inverse of the frequency. Specifically, the wavelength for any given frequency is the speed of light divided by the frequency. The speed of light is 300x10^6 meters per second. To simplify the calculation we work entirely in MHz, so we can divide the frequency in Mhz into 300 to get the wavelength in meters. Thus, the wavelength for FM is 300/100 (the middle of the band) or 3 meters. An antenna, to be effective, must be 1/4 or 1/2 wavelength. A 1/2 wave dipole is the best antenna, but a single wire 1/4 wavelength is the most you can hope for in a portable device. So that is 3 meters/4 or 0.75 meters. A meter is ~39 inches., so 0.75x39 = 29.25 inches is the optimum length for a 1/4 wave FM antenna.

Now consider cellular. And BTW, cellular radio does not use satellites. GPS does. GPS signals are sent at ~1500 MHz, so the same general range as cellular. And, in fact, the antenna can be tuned to GPS as the weakest signal, as you are usually within a few miles of a cell tower, but are several hundred from the satellites. So lets calculate using using 1500 Mhz. 300/1500 = 0.2 meters. 1/4 wavelength is 0.2/4 or 0.05 meters, or about 2 inches. Which you will observe is the approximate length of the band sections on your iPhone.

An antenna can be longer than the optimum bandwidth, but it cannot be shorter. You will receive the signal with a longer antenna, but if it is not a multiple of 1/4 wavelength you will get "standing waves" on the antenna as the signal reflects back from the end of the antenna. This will result in distortion of an FM signal; you will still get it, but it will sound garbled.

I see your point - begging the question "What 'receiving/transmitting' antennae already exist in these phones for GPS (satellites are a LONG way off), cellular, etc.? and why would these not be sufficient for FM? ( the signals are all around us anyway?)

You're not serious are you?

Radio is transmitted at varying wavelengths, the antenna needs to conform to the wavelength (1/4 wave/ 1/2 wave etc) or it won't work on that frequency.

Do some basic research on Radio.

ChitlinsCC wrote:

I think these points answer the question as to why, don't you? Partnerships, strategic alliances, profit

No, I think THAT'S the red herring. The answer to the question is that no one making phones thought it would be a selling feature. You (and NPR) are overthinking this. FM reception at its best would be terrible. You would hate it.

cepheus42 wrote:

That's the point of the discussion, to encourage Apple to change it if enough folks show they want it.

If you want Apple to know how you feel, why are you wasting your time here? They're not reading this. Use the provided feedback link.

Meg St._Clair wrote:

ChitlinsCC wrote:

*The whole point of the article is not whether it can be done, but why it is not being done. Customer service vs. shareholder profits <

And that is not an appropriate topic of discussion for these forums.

I respectfully disagree. The topic of this long running thread is indeed " FM radio for iPhone!, Fm radio for iPhone! " - best illustrated by the OP and the answerie appended - which is in fact now known to be "mis-information"!

The hardware exists, an App exists, some manufacturers acknowledge and enable the feature and one giant cellular network provider supports it for their customers. The only remaining question is the OP's implied question [Why no] "Update that gets a FM radio for iPhone?" {was actually a demand as stated?}

cepheus42 wrote:

> You keep missing the fact that there is no antenna connection.

Nope, didn't miss that point at all. It's not been proven by anyone that this is the truth. In fact, given that Apple was testing this feature by developing their own FM apps several years ago, it's more far more likely there is an antenna connection.

The proof is hackers. iPhones have been hacked (jailbroken) since the beginning. If it was possible to just enable the chip in software surely some hacker would have done it by now!

ChitlinsCC wrote:

Meg St._Clair wrote:

ChitlinsCC wrote:

*The whole point of the article is not whether it can be done, but why it is not being done. Customer service vs. shareholder profits <

And that is not an appropriate topic of discussion for these forums.

I respectfully disagree.

You don't get to disagree, you already agreed to the Terms of Use, if you no longer agree with them you should stop posting here.

With respect, Sensei... as we say in the church, "you are preaching to the choir" - I have understood physics since middle school and have some experience in FM radio stations since the early '70's.

Wavelengths are different but I find it difficult to believe that the chip remains and the antenna length to receive doesn't from the known fact of Apple testing it for iPhone and its existence on the iPod as we speak.

If you know for a fact that the antenna does NOT exist in the iPhone (where the more expensive chip set does) - we can put this part of the issue to rest, to my satisfaction at least. I can read the signs (or lack of them) clearly - it is not about the tech.

You want my college transcripts from the 70s?

Not particularly, I already see how little you know about radio.