Previous 1 3 4 5 6 7 Next 98 Replies Latest reply: Jul 20, 2013 6:20 AM by HarryKeller Go to original post
  • HarryKeller Level 1 (0 points)


  • deggie Level 9 (52,130 points)

    Not sure what you are referring to, but it is "non sequitur".

  • Meg St._Clair Level 8 (48,980 points)

    HarryKeller wrote:


    I was referring to my many MacBooks that Apple disabled Java on just a few days ago and not to the iPad.  I don't own one of those overpriced game and entertainment devices.

    The person you responded to was, apparently, referring to an iPad. Your experice with your MacBooks is irrelevant to this discussion.

  • HarryKeller Level 1 (0 points)

    You opinion.  And beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  So is irrelevance.

  • Wayne T Level 4 (2,240 points)

    Coming in very late. Posting mainly for future readers/searchers etc who find this thread.

    I've been an Industry pioneer, innovator, developer, consultant, R&D fella, - done just about everything from Mainframe systems programmer to Industry Commentator & various hi profile 'guru' type roles: over 40 years solid experience and (because I was there & part of it all when it happened) a pioneer in just about everything...


    Recently, due to complex 'family circumstances' I was left out in the cold with no access to any of my computers& associated: many Macs, networks, vital data & files, 40 years worth of work, research, backups, tools etc. etc.


    All I had was a solitary ipad & I've had to make it do EVERYTHING - I rely on it completely.. (I've been 'on the road, travelling extensively around Australia & would quite literally be lost without it).


    I've come realise that it is without doubt one of the finest, cleverest, most brilliantly-designed computers I have ever encountered. For what it is, its capabilities are amazing.


    Anyone who thinks it is a toy is simply completely, utterly Dead wrong.


    I could run a safe, successful manned moon landing with this thing. I used to use, design and program for $Multimillion Mainframes that pale into insignificance next to it in nearly every way that matters (as most ppl would know... Progress in personal Computing & related (iPhone etc)  - despite Billy Gates holding it back about 20 years with his actions - has been extraordinary - in many ways, thanks largely to Steve Jobs & Apple)


    I expect circumstances will shortly enable me to buy a fully-Spec'd MacBook Pro (with lots of SSD, Memory, VM/Virtual Machine Apps, lots of ,software, etc.incl. much  'free' and Open Source), I expect to regain remote access to my networks, Macs  and the Terabytes of essentiaL, historical, Research  & WIP  data etc residing there and I expect that it,  will be an even better, more Astounding, clever, extremely powerful 'Dream machine'.

    Maybe it'll replace the (much loved) iPad.


    If you think otherwise, - about the iPad, that's fine...   Opinions are like {part of Rectal anatomy} - everyone's got one and some are none too fragrant.


    [I dislike the whole 'central iTunes/App Store' locked-in concept - one place where I think Apple got it wrong but there are ways around all such things]


    Sell your ipad - you WILL get a Good price. Buy some *thing* because it runs Flash & Java.

    No one will care. I certainly wouldn't bother arguing with your decision. (I'm not arguing now, merely commenting on the thread for the possible benefit of future Readers who may come across it).


    For other Readers of this thread, I recommend you buy a fully-Spec'd iPad and get to know it intimately - you'll be amazed and probably fall in love with it as well as finding it to be an indispensable companion/tool.


    You will find it to be simple, easy, friendly, comfortable,  logically self-consistent, brilliantly-designed, powerful and Ultimately capable of doing just about anything you want. (I've given them to technophobic 60-80 yr Olds - and seen them become enamoured of it and proud of themselves).


    best wishes to all.

  • HarryKeller Level 1 (0 points)

    I have a background of over 50 years in the same areas as Wayne T.  I've done mainframes, embedded processors, minicomputers, and so on across a range of applications too wide to list here -- from financial to steel-mill automation.  I agree that the iPad is a remarkable feat of engineering.  It's a bit overpriced, but that's just Apple.  Yes, the quality is better than stuff that costs less, but Apple still takes a bigger bite than do most companies.  Price is significant for schools, but not really for most computer buyers.  My two grandchildren have iPads that I bought for them.  You see, I'm not an anti-iPad fanatic.


    I'm using a MacBook Pro right now to type this, so I'm not an anti-Apple fanatic either.  I do find Apple's effort to control the user experience excessive.  I'm a fan of liberty.  For the time being, I have to accept the existence of the iPad and the latest Android tablets and Chromebooks.  Fortunately, Google has provided Google Web Toolkit for those of us who enjoy creating in Java, although I have to give up some of the power of Java to be compatible with the much weaker JavaScript.  It's annoying but doable.


    Were I using an iPad right now, I would not be comfortable writing this -- unless I had a separate keyboard.  I've been typing on keyboards since they were manual-action typewriters and learned touch typing in a high school summer school class.


    The choice by tablet manufacturers (and Google's Chromebook) to leave Java out is very unfortunate.  They've deliberately excluded the world's most popular programming language for reasons that can only be viewed as excuses.  The underlying reasons are control and lawsuits.  I understand Steve Jobs' desire to have his beautiful creation unsullied by poorly created software, but he has chosen a path that does not fulfill that desire and does limit some really excellent software from being used on iPads.  Having investigated the potential for using objective-C, I can say that it's not a nice language to use.  Cocoa may be great, but not objective-C, at least not once you've experienced Java.  I programmed for years in C++ and had mastered it, but was happy to leave it behind when Java came along.


    We're in the process of converting our 50,000-line Java application to GWT.  Most of the code does not have to be converted. Lots does.  We will have two copies of some modules to maintain.  We will also have software that works as HTML5, iOS app, and Android app as well as JWS application.  We're biting the bullet here.  We'll probably be stuck with doing some optimizations as we move forward because JavaScript is less efficient than Java.


    Our experience with GWT so far is positive.  We've done plenty of JavaScript programming (reluctantly) and so are familliar with the reasons for the compromises that GWT makes and are adjusting to them nicely.  If any reading this are not Apple fanatics and do like to write in Java, I can recommend GWT as a path to greater platform compliance.

  • braintumor60 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well all I use java is for Pogo games.sure wish they would fix that

  • Wayne T Level 4 (2,240 points)

    Superb post Harry.


    Can't disagree with an obvious REAL 'fellow pro'.


    No prejudice there.

    I also hate the fact of Apple's futile attempt at 'complete control' - simply stoopid

    .also easily defeated.




    Love the products. Loathe 'big bro' Krap.


    Nice one,  Harry!!










  • HarryKeller Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks, Wayne.


    Have just hit the bump in the road known as Mac OS X 10.8.4.  Apple will do anything to defeat Java, but they fail.  Suddenly, JNLP is under attack.  If you use Firefox, Chrome, or Opera to start up your JWS application, all is good.  If you use Safari, then you must find and double-click the downloaded JNLP file every time.  They're not going to subvert developers against whom this latest nonsense is aimed.  So, why keep it up?

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