Airport Express (square) skips unbearably with Airplay

Does anyone tried the 2nd Gen Airport Express with an Onkyo A-9050 Amplifier, with the Aex outputting to the Onkyo DAC that can share their experience?

Great hypothesis Tucker. I've had the same issue: when I replaced the AE 1st gen with a 2nd gen (square), both using an optical cable into my first DAC, a Cambridge Audio DacMagic, everything worked fine... When I upgraded my DAC to something higher quality (Wyred4Sound DAC-2), then I started to get skipping and stuttering, despite a completely identical setup otherwise...

I tested a solution found on Mac OS X Hints @ MacWorld, that is to restrict the wireless network to either TKIP or AES encryption (not both)... At the same time, I also restricted the network to WPA2 auto-personal encryption and... it immediately improved the dropouts, i.e. they became much less frequent (maybe twice over a 3 min song)... still annoying but making progress!

Btw, the streaming is from an iPhone playing Songza direct to the AE square, then unto the DAC via Toslink (optical).

I have the same issue with my TEAC DAC. Sadly the only solution was to buy an Apple TV and use that for output.

Re Real solution to dropouts when using AirPlay with AirPort Express.

Well-documented on web forums is the sad fact that the AirPort Express when used with AirPlay is unstable if outputting through digital out (tosLink) going to a high-end DAC (and then on to your amplifier). Dropouts are so prevalent as to render the music unlistenable. This has been the situation with all Expresses and all firmware releases for the past two years. (Please note that your setup has to be exactly as I described for the dropouts to occur, namely digital out + high-end DAC -- mine is exaSound e20, $2,500.) I have tried various purported "solutions" to the dropout problem (changing my AirPort Extreme's network security settings, WiFi frequency, firmware, etc.). None worked.

I made one key discovery in the course of my web research. That was when I read that one observer had proved that the network wasn't involved in producing his dropouts at all: the dropouts were still present when this observer didn't use WiFi or AirPlay but connected his Express by Ethernet to his iMac running iTunes. He still had dropouts in his sound system. Ergo, the Express alone is the culprit. The observer attributed the dropouts to jitter in the digital signal from the Express which all high-end DACs are unable to lock on to consistently. Whatever the actual cause of the dropouts, the solution is ridiculously simple. Buy an Apple-TV and use it as an exact replacement for the Express.

Nothing else needs to be changed or adjusted. In fact don't even attempt to "set up" the Apple-TV for using just audio out for AirPlay. The Apple-TV is set up by default for this use out of the box. Surprisingly, at the Palo Alto Apple store where I bought the Apple-TV, the sales clerk and the networking expert were both not sure my use of the Apple-TV device for just audio out -- without any TV involved -- would work. Also they were certain I would have to hook the device up to my TV (I don't have one) in order to go through the lengthy setup that would surely be necessary (using tech note HT5900). Obligingly, I definitely intended to use the complex procedures of HT5900 for setting the device up. "But first," I said to myself, "let me just plug in the Apple-TV and see what happens." This simple substitution worked like a charm. I merely took out the tosLink cable from the Express, plugged it instead into the Apple-TV, plugged in the power cord, and let the little device initialize. Then, as I always did with the Express when I used it with analog out, went to "Music" on my iPad, used command center to set the music output destination for AirPlay. "Apple-TV" was in the destination-list that popped up, which I selected. Clear, perfect audio then sounded from my new high-end sound system, and I haven't had a single dropout since I switched to using the Apple-TV. Why isn't this simple solution to the nasty dropout problem of the AirPort Express, complained about in thousands of forum contributions over the years, generally known?

Great post Kins.

As a matter of fact, your diagnostic appears to be correct: I did try both an Airport Express first gen (plugs vertically directly into the wall) and a second gen (flat with a power cable), and they both have the same issue of intermittent dropped connections when going Toslink into a high end W4S DAC-2, even using an Ethernet cable rather than a wi-fi connection, an issue that did not exist with a much less high end Cambridge Audio DAC Magic...

Furthermore, after trying out an AudioEngine D2 24bit-96kHz wireless sender-receiver modules, that product functions flawlessly from Toslink out on a MacPro to Toslink into the W4S-DAC2 and the sound quality is vastly improved...

Now the only reason to use an AppleTV for sound only would be to AirPlay stuff from iPad/iPod/iPhones (streaming Rdio for example), not sure it's worth it...

Thanks.

To be fair, I think this is pretty well known to folks who have been through these issues. My high end Linn Numerik would not work with the AE. I also tried hard wiring and , by the way, experienced a TEMPORARY amelioration of the problem when a firmware update arrived. Clearly, the problem was down to the AE. I expect that anyone who has spent good money on their AE would prefer to live in hope that a solution is out there somewhere rather than fork out more cash for the Apple TV. For me, it was OK, because I could easily re-utilise the AE in a simple non DAC set up where it works perfectly. However, I sympathise a great deal with anyone who doesn't have a spare £90 in their pocket. Sadly, after all this time, I really don't expect that Apple have the inclination or capability to fix this.

Don't really get what you re saying here. I use one of my Apple TVs for audio only as part of 4 room wireless system. I use my Laptop to run to all speakers and my iPad or iTouch as a remote control. Of course, I have the option to stream directly from the Apple devices to one set of speakers only. I stream both iTunes and Spotify quite happily.

I'm really disapointed Apple has continued to produce such a lousy feature for an otherwise great and unmatched product. Here's to hoping that a firmware update will yet fix this issue. Unfortunately, given the longevity of this issue, it does seem unlikely.

I have bought the newest AE(square one) and I also had trouble with optical output as same as you guys have. I read someone mentioned that previous gen of AE(wall socket type) works fine with any DAC, so I bought used previous generation of AE and I worked fine(no dropout).

But after I upgraded my AE's Firmware version 7.6 to 7.6.9(?), I had same optical droupout problem.

So I had to downgraded AE's firmware version from newest to 7.6, and my AE works fine again.

my Conclusion : It was just matter of firmware version. Firmware V7.6 works fine. But brand new AE's firmware makes problem with optical output. Apple should fix this.

Steve

Thanks for that. I too have an old style AE. I did as you suggested and downloaded 7.6 via the Airport Utility. I t appears to be working fine with my DAC. I can also now reutilise my Apple TV in a situation for which it is designed so double bonus!

Just bought few days ago an Audiolab Mdac that I'm trying to set up with both an ATV and AE 1st gen.

First of all, I don't have any issue with the ATV, everything works fine, no drops... But the ATV up sample my 16/44.1 to 16/48... and I'm still trying to find a way to have bit perfect with the AE.

After a whole day spent working with wifi network settings, I can confirm that in my case the issue is not the network but the AE. With the latest firmware 7.6.4 I have drops in sound, but if I play the Audiolab Bit Perfect test, it works perfectly. On the other hands, if I downgrade the AE to 7.6.0, I don't' suffer any drops, but the Audiolab Bit Perfect test fails!

Still trying to figure out the solution, and btw still trying to understand if I'm able to perceive any difference between 44.1 and 48!

Just to share my experience.

After having drop-out problems with my old (original form) Airport Express using Airplay via a DAC I upgraded to the new square form - I hadn't read all the horror stories on this thread.

And I have say... it works great. I've been streaming for a day with no problems.

- I'm connecting to a 5Ghz network from my Aiport Extreme (using Join Network rather then Extend)

- The AE feeds my DacMagic 100.

Am I just lucky or is it something specific about my configuration that makes it work?

I just purchase the square express and it both works with Synology server and Itunes. No audio quality issues. I have it connected via optical to Marantz SR5003. What kHz freq does express support? 44, 48, 96?

edit: is it true that "DTS-encoded CDs ripped to Apple Lossless audio files - which decode as digital white noise in iTunes - will play back correctly when the AirPort Express is connected via TOSLINK to a DTS-compatible amplifier–decoder. This is limited to 16-bit and 44.1 kHz when streaming from iTunes. Any higher quality content, such as high fidelity audio that uses up to 24-bit and/or 192 kHz will be truncated down to 16-bit and 44.1 kHz." which means that express supports only 16bit and 44.1 khz. If I send to it 48khz signal does itunes or the express itself down converts the stream?

Kins: I use Airfoil to run a multi-room set up (several local amplifiers/speakers each connected to the main source via an Apple TV or AE. I never rationalized this, but in light of your post, now I can: the upper end DACs (in my case digital pre-amps) had difficulties locking to the digital signal of the AE, but worked fine with the Apple TV. The AE worked fine with lower end digital receivers.