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WorldChampRecordings Level 1 (0 points)

So, I had pretty much a flawless computer experience going between all of my machines and devices.

I've since installed Lion in my machines and iCloud in all of my devices and what's ensued has been

an experience only surpassed by Windows users... maybe.


The number of problems is too many to list here, but my main question is... have you experienced the following and

if so, found any work-arounds?


-Lion has made all of my machines decidedly slower. One is a white, intel Imac, one is a 2 year old MBP, and too afraid

to istall Lion in my 2010 Mac Pro, as it's my main business machine and I can't afford to make it as sluggish as the others.

Crashes, slow performance, spinning wheels and irregular performance, all the norm. Anyone find a cure for this?


-Mail is awful. Not only is the newer mail app cluttered and confusing, I'm finding that mails are being delted and become

impossible to find. I'm assuming we're stuck with this new format once we "upgrade" to Lion?


My mail also regularly just stops working on all devices, sending a "incorrect password" message.... and then randomly

continues working some time after that.


-iCloud's web-based mail and services: wow, just when I thought it couldn't get worse than Mobile Me's web-based mail.

Literally, this service works for me about 50% of the time... at best.  The other half, it says "cannot load mail page... send report to

Apple."  The other half of the time, it does load... but usually only for a few functions before crashing again.


Because I'm too terrified to load Lion into my main (newer) Mac... I have to access my mail via the web-based server. What do I

do if it doesn't work?


Calender - Publishing calendars has become sketchy and so I'm basically going to stop. More oddly, I seem to be getting multiple

repeats of the same item on my calender... randomly.... and only on one of my machiens.


The only upside in all of this is that my iPod/iPad and iPhone seem to be fairly stable. Not as good as before the "upgrades" but

at least useable.


Just wondering if anyone else's computer life has been ruined like this... and what you did? Anyone else go back to Snow Leopard?

Do I consider moving to Google mail and just ditching all iCloud services?  I can't imagine anything being worse. My lame Yahoo mail is

twice as dependable as my Mac Mail, now.


I'm coming up on 20 years of using Macs, and this is the biggest mess I've seen.  Sorry for the rant, but I'm on the verge of commiting

computer suicide. (i.e. moving to Windows 8 or something equally awful.)


Any suggestions for any of this myriad of problems is greatly appreciated.

Intel iMac 24, Mac OS X (10.5.3), G5/G4/G4
  • Julian Wright Level 7 (34,860 points)

    I've not experienced any of the problems you describe at all - and I've been using iCloud since it was in beta, and Lion since it came out almost a year ago.


    I find the new Lion Mail better than previous versions, although its not that different.


    I don't know what you mean by being "stuck with this new format" regarding mail. What new format?

  • Winston Churchill Level 10 (95,738 points)

    I too do not experience any of the problems mentioned in the OP's post, I wasn't going to respond to this thread because of this, however I also wondered what he meant by different mail format, to me it is very much the same as it always has been and works just as well.

  • WorldChampRecordings Level 1 (0 points)

    Sorry, by format... I simply meant the layout and options in mail look and feel very different. I don't like the mail groupings at all. It's much easier to miss mails, and I just don't get the need to bunch mails together in 'conversations" ... which hides your reply. Why do I need to click a link to see what my freaking reply to someone was?


    Beyond that, I suppose "format" includes iCloud, the consistent "wrong password" mystery, and all that goes with pretty much non-functional mail.


    I'm literally sitting here at a $3K Mac Pro that's about 18 months old with a lightning fast connection... and can't check my email because I refuse to reduce this machine's performance with Lion.


    As for my thread title, forgive the frustatration. That's simply how it feels. Once again, a couple of decades of using Macs and I've never seen a flop this badly on multiple fronts.


    Btw... none of Mac's "troubleshooting" options listed cure the web-based mail's inability to load, apparently. (Clearing cache, etc.)

  • Winston Churchill Level 10 (95,738 points)

    You can turn things like "conversations" off in mail preferences, I prefer them or some of them on and I suppose this is just a point of preference. You raised a lot of issues in your original thread, and there're probably far too many to go into all at once, however in regard to your mail on your Mac Pro, can you tell us what you have done to try to resolve this, because obviously you are trying to use iCloud mail with a pre-Lion system.

  • WorldChampRecordings Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks Winston,


    Not at all trying to use iCloud on a pre-lion system, outside of the web-based option.

    I'm assuming I don't need Lion to simply access from a SL-based newer Mac, do I?


    I can look into the preferences as well, and will do that. Though, the "incorrect password" coming and

    going issue I'm assuming isn't in preferences.


    I did ask a lot of questions... and I'll take any solutions to any of them, at this point. Thanks.

  • Winston Churchill Level 10 (95,738 points)

    I hadn't realised you were only using web-based mail on your Mac Pro. Whilst you can't use the other features of iCloud on your Mac pro, you can use iCloud mail, so I assumed you were. I don't use web-based mail that much myself, and I'm not exactly sure without checking, what options there are in preferences there, I am away from my Mac at the moment. So I may have inadvertently misled you about being able to turn off conversations.

  • WorldChampRecordings Level 1 (0 points)

    Actually, on one of my machines... I do have Lion and iCloud, so I can take your advice on that machine.

    However on my MP, I have left SL in place until Lion stabilizes. Can't afford to risk my business machine to this stuff.


    So, when you say I can use iCloud mail on my Mac Pro... I can't do that if I'm still running SL, can I? I'd have to install Lion? Because right now the only way I'm asuming I can access iCloud mail on my MP running SL is via web-based option?

  • Winston Churchill Level 10 (95,738 points)

    WorldChampRecordings wrote:


    So, when you say I can use iCloud mail on my Mac Pro... I can't do that if I'm still running SL, can I? I



    Delete your mail account from Mail preferences and set it up again using the Mail Server Information.

    Some users have apparently encountered issues using this information in pre-Lion set ups (I haven't), Roger Wilmut has kindly provided instructions for those who find themselves with this problem.

    Entering iCloud email settings manually in Snow Leopard or Leopard

  • WorldChampRecordings Level 1 (0 points)

    I'll give this a whirl. Hopefully it'll solve at least one of these issus. A big one, in fact. Thanks!

  • Julian Wright Level 7 (34,860 points)

    If you continue to have password issues, try resetting it at


    Apple upped the security requirement of passwords some time ago and are enforcing it more strictly now. If your current password does not meet the new security requirements, changing it to one that does could help.

  • Alley_Cat Level 6 (19,210 points)

    WorldChampRecordings wrote:


    I'm literally sitting here at a $3K Mac Pro that's about 18 months old with a lightning fast connection... and can't check my email because I refuse to reduce this machine's performance with Lion.


    My 2008 Mac Pro is decidedly more responsive with Lion compared to Snow Leopard.


    That may be in part as I had Filevault enabled on all my Snow Leopard accounts and have enabled disc encryption in Lion yet.


    If you have a spare internal bay on the Mac Pro why not consider a dual boot system - one with Lion to see how you fare, the other with the existing Snow Leopard


    Mountain Lion is literally a couple of weeks away at most however, you may want to just wait.


    Oddly my Mail in Snow Leopard still works fineand I've not altered settings manually.

  • Winston Churchill Level 10 (95,738 points)

    Alley_Cat wrote:


    Oddly my Mail in Snow Leopard still works fineand I've not altered settings manually.

    Yes, Apple put out this following article, which seems to support this, but some users have reported it doesn't work, it's been a bit of a toss up between suggesting this solution or Rogers, but Rogers seems to work in more cases.


    Configuring Mail in Snow Leopard

  • Julian Wright Level 7 (34,860 points)

    Yes, when MobileMe shut down on June 30th, Apple just re-pointed the old '' and '' domains to the new '' and '' servers. This meant that for most people the email should just have continued working with no changes for the user.


    This hasn't worked for everybody for some reason - possibly due to DNS caching or other ISP specific issues.

  • Conrad Inman-Fletcher Level 1 (5 points)

    I have to say I am also having many issues with Lion, and it's the first upgrade I have made since 1989 which has been generally worse than the previous system. Apart from the iDisk dissappearing which I used to use every day and which still doesn't have an equivalent replacment (but that's another story), I'm having extreme problems with Mail. I have had to re -index my hard drive and trash various files to make it catalogue emails, so it now at least finds text strings. The major problem I have is the ridiculous changes to the search box - perhaps it is me being stupid; I will explain. I get many emails from people in particular organisations. In the past, if I wanted to see an email from a particular person in the accounts department of, say, the BBC, I would select "from" includes "". I need to do this as there are maybe 50 people working in the department and I don't know who the email is from. Now, I can only type, and I get a huge list of individual people, or "message contains..." which gives me every email with a cc to a BBC person, as well as BBC news digests etc. This has made the programme literally unuseable for me, or an I missing something?


    Other annoyances are the time wasting aminations when changing months in Calendar, the hidden calendars which make it difficult to turn them on and off, the pointless Launchpad (I have 9 identical Adobe uninstaller icons amongst the apps for example), duplicate contacts in Adress book (there appears to be no way to merge contacts on my mac with icloud contacts). I could go on. And on. I guess the most telling thing is I have never had so many phone calls and emails from friends and family complaining that they now can't do something they could before, or their computer was acting strangely (that one was my mother complaining that the mouse was scrolling the wrong way). Easy to solve, but I shouldn't have to.

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