Q: Migration Assistant in OS X 10.4.10 doesn't have a 'to another Mac' option

Neville Hillyer wrote:

. . .

Pity neither of my documents were clear about this for network, TM or external disk -

Neither?  Kindly review your post again; you only posted one link, and it was to the wrong document!  It's the one for transferring to Snow Leopard, and it does make it clear when you need to start Migration Assistant on the old Mac -- the WIreless or Ethernet section.

There are a number of differences when transferring to Lion; that's why there's a separate article about it. 

perhaps you should read them.

I have, many, many times, both before they were expanded and afterwards.  While more complete than before, they still omit some things and don't clearly explain others.  That's why I wrote How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC?

Please don't get me wrong; your intent to help here is great.  But none of us knows everything.  Instead of being defensive when someone corrects you, take the opportunity to learn, so you can help better in the future.

I did not claim my documents were the correct ones for the OP's Mac although I doubt that the need for one or two instances of MA has changed.

I stand by my original statements about my help file and my link.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum.

Neville Hillyer wrote:

 

I did not claim my documents were the correct ones for the OP's Mac

If you knew that, why in the world did you post it? 

If you don't know the answer to a question, please don't guess, and please don't post links that you know aren't the right ones!  That can confuse folks, and/or lead to making a problem worse, not better.

I stand by my original statements about my help file and my link.

What the help on your Leopard Mac says (although you posted a link clearly labeled as applying to Snow Leopard), does not apply to the user's situation in this thread (transferring from Tiger to Lion).

Sorry, but you still haven't figured it out.   Please, don't just be defensive -- try to learn something here.

Migrating to Lion is similar to migrating to Leopard or Snow Leopard, but there are a number of differences, thus the different articles. Two significant differences are:

     • You can migrate via network from Tiger to Leopard or Snow Leopard, but not to Lion.

     • You can use Firewire (if the Macs have the right ports and you have the necessary cables and connectors), but the windows are different in Lion.  Further, you must choose a different option than in Leopard or Snow Leopard.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum.

Exactly.  Folks ask questions, or for help with a problem.  Other folks post appropriate answers, fixes, or recommend diagnostic procedures.  

If you want to have a discussion, we can do that.  But when you post things as facts that are wrong or don't apply, don't be surprised if someone corrects you. 

Please note item 2.5 in the Terms of Use for this Forum:

"Test your answer. When possible, make sure your Submission works on your own computer before you post it."

From: https://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discussion

discussion: the action or process of talking about something in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

In the spirit of exchanging ideas I would be grateful if you could say why so many historic MA documents appear to mislead in that they often fail to mention that MA needs to be used at both ends. Another instance of this is the assurance during installation that MA can be used later to import data. Clearly from what you say this is not always possible. In particular it is not possible if the old OS is unable to boot.

Could there have been an earlier type of MA which was single ended? If so this could, to some extent, be the explanation for some documents being wrong or incomplete. Do you know when MA was first used?

Neville Hillyer wrote:

. . .

In the spirit of exchanging ideas I would be grateful if you could say why so many historic MA documents appear to mislead in that they often fail to mention that MA needs to be used at both ends.

They don't mislead;  it's not always required, as you'd know by now if you would actually read the posts here, and/or the Apple articles, and/or How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC?

For example, the article you linked to (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4413, for Snow Leopard):

You always need either Setup Assistant or Migration on the target (new) Mac, if you want an automated transfer.  That should be clear from the title and the summary section.   (Unfortunately, the difference between Setup Assistant and Migration Assistant isn't made clear until the Additional Information section at the very end.)

You also need Migration Assistant on the source (old) Mac if you're transferring via network.

The article in question has several sections, where that's made crystal-clear:

     • FireWire

     • Ethernet

     • Wireless

     • Time Machine backup or other disk.

The FireWire section walks you through connecting via FireWire and starting the old Mac up in Target Disk mode.  No mention of Migration Assistant on the source Mac, as it's not used.

The Wireless or Ethernet section walks you through connecting, then (step 8) says to start Migration Assistant on the source Mac, and steps 9-12 show how to establish the link.

The Time Machine or other disk section walks you through connecting and selecting a TM or other disk, or TM backups on a Time Capsule.  No mention of Migration Assistant on the source Mac, as it's not used.

Another instance of this is the assurance during installation that MA can be used later to import data. Clearly from what you say this is not always possible.

Sure it is.  It's just better to use Setup Assisant when the new Mac first starts up, as doing it later with Migration Assistant means you'll have at least one extra user account (which confuses folks), and the transferred accounts may lose permission to files on other disks, especially TM backups, as detailed in the blue and pink boxes in Problems after using Migration Assistant (also linked to from the main How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC? article). 

And yes, several of us have asked Apple to change that wording, to no avail so far.  Please feel free to add your voice here:  http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

In particular it is not possible if the old OS is unable to boot.

If it's totally unable to boot, yes, of course.  But if it won't start OSX, it may boot in Target Disk mode, so unless there's also trouble with (or on) the internal HD, you may be able to transfer that way.

Or, in any case, if you have Time Machine backups on a Time Capsule (and in some cases other network locations), or "clone" backups on an external HD, you can transfer from them (per that section).

Could there have been an earlier type of MA which was single ended?

They're all "single ended" if you transfer via FireWire, Time Machine, or other disk.

If so this could, to some extent, be the explanation for some documents being wrong or incomplete.

Again, they're not incomplete on that point.  

Do you know when MA was first used?

There's an old version for transferring to Panther or Tiger, per the links supplied in How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC?

If you have more questions, I'll be happy to discuss them, but only after you've actually read and considered the Apple articles and/or (preferably and) my web pages on the subject.  Start with How do I set up a new Mac from an old one, its backups, or a PC? and follow the appropriate links.

I am still trying to get a few things sorted out in my mind.

From what you say MA is not required on a disk but it is on ethernet.

What about a volume mounted via ethernet or the internet?

Could this external volume have a full bootable OS X without requiring MA to be used on the source?

For Ethernet, or anyting besides the older Mac In FWTDM, making it look like a Firewire drive, then MA on both IS required.

Neville Hillyer wrote:

. . .

From what you say MA is not required on a disk but it is on ethernet.

MA is required on the source Mac if you transfer directly from another Mac via network (Ethernet or WIFI).

As posted: 

The Wireless or Ethernet section walks you through connecting, then (step 8) says to start Migration Assistant on the source Mac, and steps 9-12 show how to establish the link.

What about a volume mounted via ethernet or the internet?

If you had a "bootable clone" on a network, that would still be a disk, not a Mac. 

As posted:

The Time Machine or other disk section walks you through connecting and selecting a TM or other disk, or TM backups on a Time Capsule.  No mention of Migration Assistanton the source Mac, as it's not used.

You cannot migrate from the internet.

Could this external volume have a full bootable OS X without requiring MA to be used on the source?

Yes, a disk is a disk is a disk . . . not a Mac.

As posted:

The Time Machine or other disk section walks you through connecting and selecting a TM or other disk, or TM backups on a Time Capsule.  No mention of Migration Assistanton the source Mac, as it's not used.

As usual your post is very clear and I understand it - thanks.

However, I will continue to try and understand why other posts are not as clear - perhaps the clue is 'older Macs' - if so I wonder what the change was and when.

MA is required on the source Mac if you transfer directly from another Mac via network (Ethernet or WIFI).

 

If you had a "bootable clone" on a network, that would still be a disk, not a Mac. 

 

You cannot migrate from the internet.

 

Yes, a disk is a disk is a disk . . . not a Mac.

 

No mention of Migration Assistanton the source Mac, as it's not used.

Sorry but I find these statements contradictory.

Is MA required on the source disk when it is networked but not internet?

What is the situation with local connection technologies other than FireWire, eg USB 1.1, USB 2, SATA, SCSI etc?

Is this affected by the age or technology of the source or target Mac? eg OS 9, G3, G4, Intel etc?

How does MA know a mounted volume is internet connected rather than ethernet?

Is the situation changed over VPN or other remote technologies?

Can MA import from a mounted disk image?

If so does it matter where the original resides?

Neville Hillyer wrote:

. . .

Is MA required on the source disk when it is networked but not internet?

Let's try it this way:

Migration Assistant on the source Mac is required when you're connected to the source Mac via network.

Perhaps this is the part that's confusing: when you connect to the source Mac via FireWire (or Thunderbolt) cable, and start it in Target Disk Mode, it looks like a disk to the target Mac.  Thus it's really transferring from a disk.

MA is not needed when transferring from TM or clone backups on a disk.

You cannot transfer via the internet.

What is the situation with local connection technologies other than FireWire, eg USB 1.1, USB 2, SATA, SCSI etc?

With FireWire or Thunderbolt only, you can use Target Disk Mode.  You cannot transfer directly from another Mac via USB. 

You can transfer from another partition on an internal HD, or most (perhaps all?) externals connected via eSATA.

Is this affected by the age or technology of the source or target Mac? eg OS 9, G3, G4, Intel etc?

As covered earlier, you cannot transfer from Tiger or earlier to Mountain Lion via network.

For others, see http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1554

How does MA know a mounted volume is internet connected rather than ethernet?

I don't know the mechanism (and it would be very slow).  Why don't you try it? 

Is the situation changed over VPN or other remote technologies?

You cannot transfer via the internet.

Can MA import from a mounted disk image?

Yes. That's how Time Machine backups on a network are made.

If so does it matter where the original resides?

As long as it's on a local network.

Several issues arise from this but the most perplexing is the view that MA is required at both ends when one end is another Mac but not when it is a disk, volume or disk image.

If the other Mac's hard disk is mounted on the new Mac how does MA know that it is a Mac rather than a bootable disk with with a full OS etc?

Neville Hillyer wrote:

 

Several issues arise from this but the most perplexing is the view that MA is required at both ends when one end is another Mac but not when it is a disk, volume or disk image.

Please think about that for a moment: 

If you're transferring from a disk or disk image, not a Mac, where would you put MA and how would you run it?

If the other Mac's hard disk is mounted on the new Mac how does MA know that it is a Mac rather than a bootable disk with with a full OS etc?

That's what Target Disk Mode does.  Please review:  Using Target Disk mode.

Let me try and express it another way. All my concerns are about use of MA at only one end in various cases other than FireWire.

Why should MA be required on the source Mac when its disk is mounted as a shared volume via ethernet?

Why?  Ask Apple.

It's not mounted as a shared volume.  If you simply connect to another Mac via network, you don't have access to the entire HD.

The point is, it is required.  All you have to do is follow the instructions.