Q: Battery life dropped considerably on Mountain Lion.

I dont understand the whole discussion in here.

Imho it is fact, that ML dropped the battery life time. It is no hardware probleme or something like that. I installed just for fun Lion yesterday and my battery life was up to 7 hours, I installed SL and my battery life time was 8 hours. This morning I installed my ML again via time machine and i got 3-4 hours. I CAN'T be the battery or something like that. So it isn't necessary to buy a MBPR...

Is Apple support reading this board? Oo

It quite possibly is an OS problem - but that fact that it's only happening on a few computers leads me to believe that it's an OS compatibility with a hardware issue.  So, it's really hardware...right?  If it were just OS, it'd happen on all of them. 

One thing I've noticed on mine (15" Retina - 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram), is that it seems like the fan is running a lot.  Even when I'm not really running any processes (Outlook, Chrome), it seems like it's really pushing it.  Is that normal, or do these normally run pretty silent?

My question is, is the battery read pretty normal for what it takes to push a fan that hard -- only the fan shouldn't be pushing that hard?

Or is the fan running normal, and the battery life just *****?

stcraw4d wrote:

 

It quite possibly is an OS problem - but that fact that it's only happening on a few computers leads me to believe that it's an OS compatibility with a hardware issue.  So, it's really hardware...right?  If it were just OS, it'd happen on all of them.

It's sort of a metaphysical debate, but I'd argue that if (a) the hardware is constant, (b) the OS changes and (c) an adverse effect occurs after the OS changes, it's an OS problem (or a problem with the associated firmware update). 

It may be that the OS is not addressing a hardware configuration appropriately, but the hardware hasn't changed and it worked fine before, so it's not the hardware's problem.

Hello all, I'd like to post an update to my situation at present in relation to my last posts.

I had the issue with my MBP Mid-2010 where the Nvidia 330M was crashing the whole system and had the logicboard replaced (which fixed this). Since updating to Mountain Lion i have had a weird issue where a login the screen would go black and white and look all broken and such.

This is that issue,

Along with the fact that since installing mountain lion the battery has become useless (supposed to be 7 hrs wireless web, is only at max 4hrs) i felt that i could not wait until another update came out to address these issues.

Called apple and set up a technical check with my local authorized service provider and dropped the machine in yesterday along with a note about the graphics glitch at login (including a video of the issue, screenshot above from said video) and the battery draining issues since upgrading.

Got a call from the tech guy earlier this morning. He stated that they are aware of a issue relating to ML draining battery rapidly and will test my battery to try to find out what's happening.

On my partners early 2008 MBP with ML also installed the battery draining issue is also occurring and has reduced the battery from 5hrs wireless web to just shy of 3:30hrs.

The rapid battery draining is most definitely a OS related issue, it can in no way be related to hardware as both macs that I have, have this issue. ML also dropped the health of the 2008 MBP from 86% to 79% and this morning back to 84%, similar to what happen my mid-2010.

I would have to disagree that this issue is only affecting a small number of macs, as stated by myself and others it has been well documented by various websites and apple's own WWDC vids the changes made to how OS X manages its power. I think the most plausible reason for this happening is an issue in the OS that uses too much power for all tasks and is not based of readings of CPU activity or anything else that is visible/readable. I don't know if many of you have tried booting into the recovery partition but I have noticed that the issue exists there too. only verifiable by the speed at which the percentage of the battery drops as in recovery there is no estimated time dialog box that appears when clicking the battery icon in the menu bar.

When I hear from the tech guys again, (he said he would ring again tomorrow with an update in relation to the tests he wants to perform) I will post up any advice/information that is provided.

He also mentioned that 10.8.1 was supposed to address this issue (as was stated by a senior advisor to another poster on this thread), so unless there is internal release notes not provided to the gereral public that are provided to the service providers there is no way i know of to verify this.

In a followup question for whoever has had this problem - does it take FOREVER for the battery to charge?  I came into work at 8am (it's 9am exactly now) with the battery at 50%.  It's been charged (and in minimal use - Outlook, Web) and it's just now at 56%. 

But, as I'm typing this, it's dropped to 53% - while still plugged in. 

I hate this thing.  Total piece of junk. 

Display looks amazing, though, for the 8 minutes a day that it works.

For what it's worth, I was looking through Apple's Open Source website (a large amount of OSX is open source), and you can see that the parts updated for the 10.8.1 release included the PowerManagement module. So clearly Apple know. But to what extent is this affecting Apple laptops?

If I had more time I would do a "Diff" and see what they specifically are changing.  If anyone devs out there have time then I'd be interested to see.

stcraw4d wrote:

 

One thing I've noticed on mine (15" Retina - 2.7 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16GB Ram), is that it seems like the fan is running a lot.  Even when I'm not really running any processes (Outlook, Chrome), it seems like it's really pushing it.  Is that normal, or do these normally run pretty silent?

 

My question is, is the battery read pretty normal for what it takes to push a fan that hard -- only the fan shouldn't be pushing that hard?

 

Or is the fan running normal, and the battery life just *****?

My rMBP 2.3 i7 is running both fans at 2000rpm approx all the time. I think this is normal.  I can't hear them over the Aircon. Try iStatPro (it's free) to see your fans and CPU temp.

Paul

On my MBP-R, on Lion, I had 9-10hrs of battery life with display at 50%

now I get 4-6 depending on display levels

I can't hear the fans on my MBP-R unless I put my ear to the bottom of the thing. Fans only kick in audibly when I have a lot of video running or the airflow is blocked on my lap or something.

Beisarius wrote:

 

Hey richsadams,

 

My latest posts pointed out that it does not matter if firmware or software, I now believe those units are lemons (except older systems).  99.999 percent out there are not. Geniuses are genuinely surprised when learnign about it as they really have not seen people with the problem. Had you or I had no ML battery problem on other macbooks, neither of us would have even known this forum existed. Well, i would have as I read the editorials.

 

MLon my current MBA came with the same firmware as it did on yours, and performance is superb. Never heard the fans once, does not even get lukewarm, and gives me over 8 hrs. So all ML things considered, yes, it will push and drain older hardware, but only defective 2011/2012 macbooks will not work properly.

So what you're saying is that although my MBA was running perfectly with Lion, upgrading to Mountain Lion highlighted a defect?  I can buy that, but I'm confused as to why, when reverting back to a clean install of Lion the "defect" still exists if it was a solely a Mountain Lion issue. 

In other words, what did Mountain Lion do to my MBA that was "permanent"; that couldn't be undone by reinstalling Lion?

I never did have the fan/overheating problems that others mentioned...my MBA runs completely normal with Mountain Lion as well as Lion (with the exception of the severe battery drain of course).

FWIW I closed the lid and lost 4% overnight...which never happened pre-Mountain Lion. 

I can take it to my local Apple store, they've always been great BTW, but I'm afraid that they'll tell me this is normal for a 21 month old unit...even though it's using about 1%/min. of its battery life and loses about 1% battery health every couple of cycles (when it only lost 5% in the previous 119 cycles).  Perhaps not.  I guess I can only try.  I suppose that adding that I was contacted by Apple and asked to run some diagnostics might help my case.

Sigh.

Thanks for taking the time to respond though...I've been following and posting on this thread almost since day one and it's nothing if not interesting.  Still hope Apple can resolve this soon.

from what i'm hearing from the ppl on this forum, they're getting next to nowhere at the apple store.  they are all calling in to apple, asking for a sr. advisor, and things are getting done that way.  i went to the apple store and they replaced my battery, but they are denying that there is a problem with power and ML. next step for me will be calling in, because even with the new battery, i'm still losing 4% a night and am losing power much too quickly for my taste (i came straight from ML with 7hrs of life AT LEAST) even with my screen at about 30%.

Hmmm...good advice.  Maybe I'll take that route and see what happens.

Cheers for that!

Hey kammari, and greghei, indeed that number may not be reliable. It could perhaps be too low ref working units, Perhaps 99.999 is closer to reality. So here are two links in quarterly Apple sales (2012)

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post.aspx?post=58010cd3-ae74-4e2c-bddc-4eddd6b24 b2f

http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-disappointing-mac-sales-despite-r etina-macbook-release-4-million-units-sold-in-q3-2012/

So they are talking millions of units. Per quarter! Even once you remove the iMacs, 2010 to 2012 you are talking 30-50 million macbooks sold in 12 quarters- perhaps lots more. So if we consider 99.999 that means  i am extrapolating 0.001 units. that means 0.001 x 30 000 000 = 30 000 to 50 000 drain/sleep affected units. At 0.0001 (99.9999) that still means 3000 to 5000 affected units. And once your battery is gone- you know having a problem. true, some keep their machines plugged, but this should not affect this scale.

Now Apple employs a thousand + techs in customer support- again one can research those figures. So what is the likelyhood that if even 3000 users called with the issue (english speaking world), most Apple techs would be unaware? Quasi nil.. yet most techs are unaware... They are not, from geniuses to Sr Advisors. Some Sr advisers are aware as they read about it, or been told by third parties. I have yet to talk to a Sr adviser that told me having witnessed it himself.

Cuppertino, we are now talking dozens of Sr engineers, reacting to media. Like the Antennagate- turns out iPhone 4 was working fine excpet the very rare odd dud. But they reacted still, to identify if they had, indeed, missed anything in design.

back to math: if we take 99.9999 or 99.999, and the 113 pages here, odds are we are still over-estimating the number of affected units. If there were even 5000 affected users that noticed it (and that is 10% of 50 000 or my 0.001), this post would have had several thousand pages (including replies).

So, only 113 pages and very few posters.. Tech and even Sr advisors barely heard of it- or simply not, and general reviews of the Macbooks and ML overwhelmingly positive.

Oh Arstechnica? they got a dud... Had they placed their BTO a second earlier or later, the unit received would have been unaffected and that article would not have existed. The Ars technica article is cancelled by so many other reviews that noted no problem whatsoever... Also, some affected users did clean installs, and the problem went away (Ars did upgrades). Just in case people wonder, sometimes one gets issues when reinstalling same os from time machine...

Rest of articles (Macworld for example) were simply quotes from Ars technica, which is caleld circular reporting. So the evidence in the tech world is essentially, inexistant. One single test is no reference. Same as the burnt retina screen, only a percetage of LG screens were affected. Most reviewers never ever saw it.

Might have been on the low side if implying that 99.99% of units work. Maybe 99.999 or way higher is the actual figure. The volume of apple macbook sales dictates- tells and dictates us- that had this issue been even near the 99.99 percent zone (10 times worse than 99.999), all of Apple's techs would have been overwhelmed, the whole world would have known and we would have had hundreds and hundreds of thousands of affected users, some which would go about posting or complaining. The 113 pages here point out how underwhelmingly small the number of affected users must be.

When I reframed my outlook on this issue, I looked hard at those figures, and realigned my perception with the numbers. If you can somehow link this post with even 1 percent of affected users, i will ask you, where is the evidence.. in this case, the lack of evidence is evidence in itself. no smoking gun = at least 99.999 percent of users out there have no problem. It is an estimate based methodology, but unless there is a proof of a problem in actual numbers, current numbers as we see tell us this is really tiny.

Beisarius wrote:

 

 

When I reframed my outlook on this issue, I looked hard at those figures, and realigned my perception with reality. If you can somehow link this post with even 1 percent of affected users, i will ask you, where is the evidence.. in this case, the lack of evidence is evidence in itself. no smoking gun = at least 99.999 percent of users out there have no problem.

So, distilling this long post down, the answer to my request to point me to the data is "I can't, I made it up."  Your assumptions (which is all that your post is) may be correct, but you have no hard data. 

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence only if you can establish that everyone having this problem has (a) identified the problem, and (b) has complained to Apple or media organizations.

All I'm saying is that you don't have any factual basis for asserting that this is not a widespread problem.  At best you have assumptions/guesses.  Meanwhile, numerous Apple senior advisors have told users that this is a known problem affecting a fairly broad population of users (not everyone, but broad) that they're trying to solve.

If you're going to throw out numbers as assertions of fact, at least try to use actual data, not just WAGs.