Q: Battery life dropped considerably on Mountain Lion.

You could not be further from the truth, referring to my background.  You have absolutely no proof of anything you say, you are a blow hard.  I posted a link that disproves one of your BS facts, and you found a way to justify your BS.  Posting what you think, is not posting facts, or proof... you obviously can't post proof, I get it, you are talking out your a$$.

Steve, forgot your battery part of the question. Answer is No,  software does not care as to what components are installed when it comes to battery estimates. It just uses an algorhythm (which I do not like at all on ML as it updates too often) to relate power drain vs battery capacity and health.

Where components do matter are batteries. third party batteries do not last at all. Whether copyright or faulty technology, in the last 3 years never saw one (and tried about half a dozen) that could last in Lion or ML. I am sure Apple is pushing the proprietary thing in the battery realm too, and its chips and technology are designed to work on Apple machines.

I even tried newoverstock Apple batteries (business that could not sell them). they also had an abyssimal life even though they were genuine Apple. So I realized the common flaw: they were all a few years old on shelves even though never used. Began dying with each cycle. So last couple of batteries I bought, Apple only, checked, all made within 6 months tops. Apple also stamps the package. That matches genius claims that Apple cycles its shelves because unused batteries just become junkish and will not last a year warranty. So 100% battery health is possible only on a battery straight off the line. 6 months battery is still good, but should be 97-98 percent range. Previous algorythms stated 100% on a new one, but it was not correct from a physical standpoint if the battery had been stored a few months.

Finally, how you use your laptop will also affect life, I woudl defer to apple's article on maxmizing battery life, as well as battery university.

No, I am bang on the background, Conversely, you could have the background but no tbe good at it. And for those unsure what the argument is about, was attacked that my argument that apple cannot have 0.001 or 0.0001 units at fault with this issue is not true. My argument and Apple's business or troubleshooting model by distording it into something it is not.

So here are two links:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.ht ml

http://www.cultofmac.com/175627/the-retina-macbook-pro-could-net-apple-an-additi onal-1-billion-in-profit/

Second is an estimate. So Apple is working hard to get those 1 billion profit margins for macbooks, as ipads and iphones definitely lead with thieown billion profit.

I threw before the 100 000 number of units that cannot or should not be affected. A logic board replacement is $ 1000 (more for rMBP), but I will choose the baseline $1000, for any logicboard replacement (no matter the age, even my 2008 was $ 1000 free replaced a few months ago).

Comparison: RIM subsidized nearly one million Blackberry pads, $ 200 each, loss of 300 million (maybe 400). Shares droped, instantly..

Now Apple Math:

$ 1000 x 100 000 defective units = 100 000 000$ OR $ 100 million loss on one single issue per quarter. So essentially the QC exec reports to Tim, "Sorry, we have a $ 100 million loss for some battery drain thing.." Now there are other operating losses, my trackpad ($ 100 repair) BUT logicboards are the ultimate no no. PLUS all other losses.

Common sense dictates - as well as Apple's financial staements, that Apple is NOT loosing and reporting 10% of its profit to this battery problem. At $ 100 000 000 this would be a gigantic loss for a single macbook issue.

If the readers look at the financial figures and estimates in the links, and accept Apple is not rushing hard to generate 1 bn profit yet selling 100 000 defective macbooks (battery drain) per quarter, then you just entered the 0.001 realm I mentioned. Because Apple sold some 30 million macbooks last year, and 100 000 would be 0.003% for the whole year.

Ex: 30 million units, costs $ 1000 per unit to make, Appel nets $ 300 profit. = 9 billion profit for the whole.

Ex: 1 000 000 defective (drain) for a battery issue (0.03) direct loss,at $ 1000 per unit repair = $ 1 billion operating loss that one MUST report to investors (US regulations,). Shares tank. Have they? Not.

So again people may wish to attack these numbers, but Apple lists how many unit it sells. What profit it makes. Even r&d. Operating losses. So those willing to throw 1/4 1/10 affected by ML are really essentially stating Apple slashing its profit. If Apple reported a $ 100 000 000 loss to a battery issue, (last year or this one), shares would drop instantly. BTW, 1/4 lemon draining macbooks that need to be replaced would constitue a $ 7.5 billion operating loss. (0.25x 30 000 000 x 1000$/repair)= 7.5 Quite catastrophic. Can it happen? Never has it happened in any viable company's history.

Some people are math oriented and may understand my estimate. I evidently do not know how many macbooks are lemons. Some may have lemon components and be easily replaced. but full unit loss and logicboard replacement, it cannot be a large figure. Or Apple would be slashing its profits and reporting it to shareholders and investors. Hence my argument, and quite factual, that at least 99.999 % of macbooks out there are ERROR FREE and it justifies the profit margin these macbooks generate. Conversely, check out Acer and Dell and will understand why they do not make billions in mobile device sales.

if 99.999 makes sense, then easy to understand my observation that no way there are 0.03 or 0.01 defective units and why this issue is really, really much smaller than that, perhaps a factor of 10 or 100 smaller. If asked for more basic proof then this, i will point out to basic high school math books.

What the numbers should do is to reassure members of the forum that, given the current macbook sales, 99.999 % of macbooks out there perform superbly, and Apple's  Q4 2012 report will also illustrate this. So buy your next macbook in full confidence that you got 99.999 percent odds it will work. Apple reports so much profit from direct sales (as opposed to some investment) as it has minimal operating loss from such things as replacements. QED

You missed the point completely, you are trying to justify your numbers while ignoring the fact that you don't know what the issue is.  If you don't know what the issue is, you can't begin to estimate the cost (beyond it being between $0 and the cost of a new Mac).

You are using a logic board as your cost example, it could be a piece of firmware that could be fixed with a patch.  Again, you are so quick to ignore reality and make stuff up, all while pretending to be some sort of expert.

You haven't a clue what you are talking about.  It is all speculation and guessing.  Do everyone a favor and stop pretending that you know what you are talking about.  Don't present your opinion as a fact, it is sure sign that you have very little real life experience and are talking out the wrong hole again.

gmc74:

7 pages ago, you were kind enough to suggest the following when my responses to Beisarius's "analyses" were reaching what should have been my personal point of diminishing return and I couldn't see it:

gmc74 wrote:

 

I really prefer to stay out of these discussion, since we have no idea as to whether you are a 15 year old kid or someone with actual experience and knowledge...

 

I am going to assume that both of you realize that neither of you can be proven right or wrong, this is a waste of everyone's time.

 

I will try to do you the same kindness, and remind you of your wise words to me, as well as the age-old cautionary notes re: wrestling with pigs. 

greghei1

Umm I do know what the issue is: over 99% of macs out there have no such drain issue.

Your firmware will not come. Most MBAs and MBPs out there, 2011/2012, with ML, perform as mine, bang on. And the sales and profits prove issue is tiny. 

We are nearing 10.8.2 and no fix will come for 2012 defective units. Some, like my recnt MBA, would have been replaced and thrown away by Apple.

Never pretended to be an expert, but an informed reader and critical thinker.

"you can't begin to estimate the cost" actually, are you pretending or something? I replaced 4 macbooks over the years, and the cost to Apple  has always been $ 1000 to $ 1200 ontheir own bill. Warranty each.

Also, you are not read into technology. The production cost of a MBA 13.3 is around $ 1000 for Apple. Rest is profit (hence such small discounts) Even Samsung/Acer admitted that from own ultrabook costs. That is cost to get from silicone all the way to shiny delivered box. $ 1000 minimum for a 13.3. Easy to find knowledge. iPhone:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1719652/iphone-cost-usd18751

Old figures. Ipad way more (nearly 300, 2012 Apple pushing for 250/unit, rest is profit). So to replace an ipad is min 250-300 direct loss. You are asking me to prove and provide numbers about a 'large' problem that does not exist. But used profit numbers to prove why 99.999 percent is a valid performance figure for macbooks.

Making stuff up, i used real figures and real numbers. The 100 000 was an arbitrary figure chosen to illustrate why it cannot be so large a failure.

You lost the argument, you lost the case, and you provided no counter argument, failed to attack a single one of my calculations. Attacking personally is called an ad hominem fallacy. Even a philosophy 101 student gets that.

Your 2011/2012 MBA/ MBP give you 2-3 hours? have it replaced as it is a lemon. No fix will come. But Apple's customer care will solve it.

Yes greghei1, I fell into the same trap, and while I was typing those messages I was thinking "I owe you an apology". 

The reality is that I agree with you, my comments were really directed towards the other member of your conversation, but I digress.

I too will tap out.

Well...in an effort to get this thread back to its initial topic, while the battery replacement I received from apple isn't losing 15% a night, it's still losing that 3-4%.  I've had the battery since this Monday (9/3), and in that time the battery health has decreased about 2-3 % (not sure if the decline was steady, so I can't say much on that other than stating the facts).  The battery life still leaves much to be desired, so the next step for this MVP owner is calling into apple and requesting to speak with an advisor.

The only way I can put my MacBook Pro 13 i7 8GB RAM 750 GB HD is to put it in hibernation. So maybe something keeps running when it's just put in sleep mode.

The only way I can put my MacBook Pro 13 i7 8GB RAM 750 GB HD to sleep without losing battery charge is to put it in hibernation. So maybe something keeps running when it's just put in sleep mode. I lose no battery charge in hibernation.

Ikaika777 wrote:

 

The only way I can put my MacBook Pro 13 i7 8GB RAM 750 GB HD to sleep without losing battery charge is to put it in hibernation. So maybe something keeps running when it's just put in sleep mode. I lose no battery charge in hibernation.

Don't put it into hibernation one night, open Console the next morning and read the logs.  You'll see exactly what it's been up to overnight...or any other time for that matter.  More here:

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/mac_os_x_using_console_to_troubleshoot_pr oblems/

Alright guys, enough with the arguing. That's not going to help the battery problem in any way and it's very childish. Let's keep the discussion civil please.

hello chris, i wil try to do this..

also, i fixed phone appointment to discuss about this battery issue with the apple support for this morning at 10 (i'm in italy). a voicemail called me 3 times saying that they'll call me back in 10 minute, but now they say: follow the directions we gave you in the confirmation email we sent you, to plan another phone call.

this is annoying and honestly i don't know what to do.

i went to apple center and they said that everything is fine and wait for the next upgrades. i try to speak with the support via phone and they did like this, i activate an apple care when i bought it and it seems that it doesn't work..

above this, as this is my personal mac, to make the phone call planned with apple i stayed at home loosing hours of work.

i spent more than 1.700 euros for my macbook pro, as a would a long  lasting computer and secure. but it seems that it's not like this. my  old (powerpc processor) ibook, was soo much better. but this was the  past..

i'll try later to fix another phonecall..just to try all my best to, at least, understand what's happnening to my more than 1.700 euro mac..

FWIW

Mine's a late 2008 macbook (4GB RAM, original hard disk swapped with intel SSD a few years ago).

Original battery was swollen in December 2011.  Replaced with a new battery in the downtown Montreal apple store.

New battery has a total of 130 cycles so far.

Recently made the upgrade from 10.6 (Snow Leopard) to 10.8 (Mountain Lion) (never installed 10.7 Lion).

Let indexing/backups/whatnot settle for a few days, but battery consumption was noticably high.  Measured drain from 99% -> 5% in 2 hours 45 minutes of light browsing.

Have no concrete measurements of battery life on 10.6, but I'm fairly certain 4+ hours was not out of the norm.

Extremely frustrating.  Unhappy customer.

Hey guys, a small update on my side.

My late 2010 MBP is still having battery problems in spite of doing everything suggested in the forum.

In my country we don't have any sort of Genius Bar services, so pretty much out of choices, I opted to contact Apple Care even though I never bought Apple Care and am long time out of warranty.

Via telephone I explained them my dilemma and they were nice enough to follow my "unusual" case for free. They made me do all things this forum has tried out (PRAM reset and all that jazz) all to no avail. Today we're going to try a clean install of Mountain Lion to see if it fixes the problem. To avoid importing any possible problem from my old configuration I'm not going to do a Time Machine import but to manually reconfigure (aka, copy/paste from my external drive backup) all my files and apps.

I'll let you guys know if it works! I wish I didn't have to wipe my computer clean but the battery problem has really gotten out of hand and I'd much rather salvage what is left of my battery life rather than wait for a fix that might not even be released in a foreseeable future