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Where did RSS go in Safari 6???

95007 Views 544 Replies Latest reply: Mar 22, 2014 4:39 PM by piero RSS Branched to a new discussion.
  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 3:04 PM (in response to etresoft)

    im not defending apple on this, the move made no sense to me especially the lack of mentioning that feature loss. when you say you added notifications, safari already has the ability to notify you and in a better way then any other browser (through toolbar folders of feeds) it also displays the feeds themselves in a far better way then any other browser and all of the dedicated feed readers i have seen trying to replace the feature for others who've already upgraded to safari 6. im curious what other features you might be referring to.

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,860 points)
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    Sep 29, 2012 5:27 PM (in response to ubernaut)

    ubernaut wrote:

     

    when you say you added notifications, safari already has the ability to notify you and in a better way then any other browser

     

    I was referring to notifications in Mountain Lion. Safari supports HTML5 notifications, but other than one demo site, I've never seen any web site use it. At first I thought Apple was trying to push people to using that service, but after getting a little feedback from users, I changed my mind. It turns out that there are way too many hand-coded, unique RSS feeds out there. Now I think Apple just doesn't want to bother anymore.

     

    im curious what other features you might be referring to.

     

    I'm just referring to everything else that might be in an RSS feed other than title and description. Some feeds provide much more than this. Some feeds don't even supply those two fields. Since you've been using Safari, you might not have known all of this other stuff existed.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 5:40 PM (in response to etresoft)

    i dont think being constantly notified is good thing for most feeds i think the whole point is that the updates are on your own terms waiting for you to tell you how many updates have transpired since your last chance to check but maybe thats just me and the amount of rss feeds i follow.

     

    i dont see where it's really apple problem as i said before they only responsible when it hits a certain threshold such as twitter or youtube it is very rare to find a site feed that safari isnt compatible with so i dont think that point has much merit either. normally its the site owners responsility to make sure their site functions and looks correct on all the makor browsers i dont see why you dont think that same logic applies to the http and feed protocols.

     

    regarding the other features your description makes me think you really never used safari's rss feed feature. i get images attached files what else would there be that safari doesnt see already?

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,860 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 7:32 PM (in response to ubernaut)

     

    ubernaut wrote:

     

    i dont think being constantly notified is good thing for most feeds i think the whole point is that the updates are on your own terms waiting for you to tell you how many updates have transpired since your last chance to check but maybe thats just me and the amount of rss feeds i follow.

     

    Is that a lot or a few? I find that when I have all my feeds running with notifications I surf the web a lot less. It is kind of strange. It is almost like EtreFeed (I guess I'll need the disclaimer now) is a SPAM filter for the web. It is easier to ignore notifications than to switch to another application (Safari or any other RSS reader) and see if there are feed updates.

     

    i dont see where it's really apple problem as i said before they only responsible when it hits a certain threshold such as twitter or youtube it is very rare to find a site feed that safari isnt compatible with so i dont think that point has much merit either. normally its the site owners responsility to make sure their site functions and looks correct on all the makor browsers i dont see why you dont think that same logic applies to the http and feed protocols.

    Perhaps you just aren't looking hard enough. I made the same mistake with EtreFeed 1.0. It worked perfectly on every feed I could find. But it turns out that different people are interested in different topics and in some areas, RSS feeds are pretty much standards-free. People make up the format as they go. Safari may well have had support for more variants than my 1.0 build, but Safari still only displayed title and description. My 1.2 build will have customizable support for any fields. There is no way Apple would have ever done that. I don't think there is any single smoking gun that caused Apple to remove RSS support. There are just too many gotchyas coming from all sides and Apple decided it just wasn't worth the effort. Both Safari and Mail relied on Apple's old PubSub framework and that framework really isn't compatible with modern Mac App Store-friendly application development practices.

     

    regarding the other features your description makes me think you really never used safari's rss feed feature. i get images attached files what else would there be that safari doesnt see already?

    Those images are just part of the HTML code inside the description field. There are many other fields that may, or may not, be present.

     

    I did use Safari's RSS feed feature, but not too much. I found it kind of awkard. I had to switch to Safari just to see if there were updates, look for the feed bookmark, see if it had a number, then click to see which feeds were updated, then click again to see the feed. Then I had to scroll through to see the new articles and look at umpteen ad images. Why should I have to do all of that work? Now, my Mac alerts me when there is a new article posted and most of the time I can see by the title in the notification that I don't really care. If the notification looks interesting I can either click it to read the article right away or know that the next time I go to check, there will be an interesting article waiting for me.

     

    Apple often gets criticised when it adds some feature to the operating system and essentially puts some 3rd party developer out of business. Only big, cross-platform products like Google, Microsoft, or Mozilla can compete with that. I think this is a situation where Apple thought Safari's limited RSS features were holding people back and it was a big hassle to keep maintaining it. This time, Apple did the opposite and created an opportunity for 3rd party developers like myself. If you don't like my program, there are many more RSS feed readers to choose from.

     

    Disclaimer: I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my content.

  • paul1@mac.com Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 7:54 PM (in response to ZORGALISCIOUS)

    oh please. of course u defend apple cause you advertise your app here. -.-

     

    safaris rss implementation was perfectly usable for many years. i never felt like i missed anything. i tried all sorts of rss readers from time to time (around 5) and the extra features were useless to me. besides...they are clunky. all of them.

  • ubernaut Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 8:06 PM (in response to etresoft)

    the whole point of why integrated RSS capability is distinctive and valuable is what i think you're missing here. i have a attached few example screenhots of how safari's implementation can work when used well. it's extremely elegant and accomplishes exactly what the rss model promised, really simple syndication, getting media delivered to the consumer on the consumers terms, in the same manner a DVR might deliver TV content on the consumers terms. its like the difference between having to use one remote to watch the shows you want or two. in your model its like you have a third remote in the picture to let you know when you have shows, totally pointless and actually counter to the whole idea.

     

    i have at least 50 to 100 different feeds of varying prioties in various submenus of my toolbar on average during a weekday there would be be several updates per minute. some i only want to see the number im not even looking at the content, some i actually consume most of the content without even visiting the site myself. people who have similar workflows to me when it comes to these things know what im talking about this is a huge step backwards in terms of UX.Screen Shot 2012-09-29 at 7.46.32 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2012-09-29 at 7.48.35 PM.jpgScreen Shot 2012-09-29 at 7.47.03 PM.jpg

  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,860 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 8:07 PM (in response to paul1@mac.com)

    paul1@mac.com wrote:

     

    oh please. of course u defend apple cause you advertise your app here. -.-

     

    I've been defending Apple here for a lot longer than I've been trying to sell an RSS reader

     

    safaris rss implementation was perfectly usable for many years. i never felt like i missed anything. i tried all sorts of rss readers from time to time (around 5) and the extra features were useless to me. besides...they are clunky. all of them.

     

    OK. But Safari's RSS reader is gone now. I understand your goal of petitioning Apple to bring it back, but this is not the appropriate venue for that. This is a user-to-user discussion forum. Some users have suggested their favourite RSS readers to use instead. Others users have created new ones to exploit new capabilities in Mountain Lion. The only thing none of us can do is make Apple bring back the old functionality in Safari.

     

    Yes - before you say it - I know what you are thinking. If we can just get this thread to 100,000 views and 1000 replies then Apple will be FORCED to take action. Sorry, but there is no guarantee of that. You are free to keep trying, but it sure seems like a waste of time.

  • eddy kestemont Level 2 Level 2 (475 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 11:48 PM (in response to etresoft)

    "Eventually, Safari would only be able to display headings and paragraphs and hide everything else. That is exactly what Safari's RSS reader does."

     

    And this is exactly what I need. And nothing else.

     

    BTW I find it a little bit troubling, somebody defending  vigorously a very poor decision of Apple and trying to make money selling his/her application, and this on a supposedly user/user forum.

  • eddy kestemont Level 2 Level 2 (475 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 29, 2012 11:57 PM (in response to etresoft)

    "This is a user-to-user discussion forum"

    Coming from you a developer this is a joke I suppose ?

  • poddan Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 12:03 AM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft: yes, this a user-user forum not a forum to sell your app.

     

    Don't you think users suggestions to send feedback to http://www.apple.com/feedback/ is helping? I and others sure hope so. If you don't, please stop provoke others that do hope.

  • Guru Maximus Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 12:59 AM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft wrote:

     

    I was referring to notifications in Mountain Lion. Safari supports HTML5 notifications, but other than one demo site, I've never seen any web site use it. At first I thought Apple was trying to push people to using that service, but after getting a little feedback from users, I changed my mind. It turns out that there are way too many hand-coded, unique RSS feeds out there. Now I think Apple just doesn't want to bother anymore.

     

    im curious what other features you might be referring to.

     

    I'm just referring to everything else that might be in an RSS feed other than title and description. Some feeds provide much more than this. Some feeds don't even supply those two fields. Since you've been using Safari, you might not have known all of this other stuff existed.

    Your logic that just because "Safari's RSS functionality is not feature complete (lacks features that are there in other readers) or that there are lots of competing standards within the RSS umbrella that Apple made the right decision to abandon it" is a logic that warrants killing off a lot of other features and applications on Mac just because A. those applications are not as feature-complete as other third-party apps;  B. there are so many standards to translate/parse in that app (though this logic doesn't stand for Safari RSS because it was already able to parse the most used RSS XML formats). Some of the apps that come to mind:

     

    * Calendar (vs other calendar apps available for Mac, which have more 'features')

    * Mail (vs Outlook and other full-blown email clients)

    * Pages (vs Word; plus, there are many 'document' standards out there - if you had a problem understanding a bunch of XML standards for RSS then imagine parsing through a plethora of binary formats for a document)

     

    Feature-incompleteness or multiple-standards-to-adhere-to have never kept Apple from creating applications and features for its OSes. Safari RSS had always worked (it was not broken); if someone wants more features they can choose a 'better' RSS reader (that has more features that is) from the app eco-system just like one can for Mail and Calendar for example. But forcing the customers, rather than letting them make the choice, is not the right way.

  • Guru Maximus Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 1:16 AM (in response to etresoft)

    etresoft wrote:

     

    I did use Safari's RSS feed feature, but not too much. I found it kind of awkard. I had to switch to Safari just to see if there were updates, look for the feed bookmark, see if it had a number, then click to see which feeds were updated, then click again to see the feed. Then I had to scroll through to see the new articles and look at umpteen ad images. Why should I have to do all of that work? Now, my Mac alerts me when there is a new article posted and most of the time I can see by the title in the notification that I don't really care. If the notification looks interesting I can either click it to read the article right away or know that the next time I go to check, there will be an interesting article waiting for me.

    Exactly. You made a choice to use another application that fit your needs. What part of that do you not get for others for whom Safari's RSS functionality fulfilled their needs? That those who prefer Safari's RSS do only want the title and description? That those who wish to go beyond that are free to choose a full-featured RSS?

  • forex420 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 1:40 AM (in response to Guru Maximus)

    I posted previously and was pis#ed off about the lack of Safari RSS functionality.  My gripe is only that Apple removed the feature without explanation, presumably to sell more RSS readers in their app store. Previously, on the rare occasions that I wanted to click on an RSS feed, Safari would simply let me see the feed contents.  Admittedly I never used RSS that much, but removing the feature seemed too abrupt.

     

    However, given the possible reasons for removal of the feature, I don't care anymore.  I installed Vienna and use it the few times I want to inspect an RSS feed.  If I don't want to keep the feed in Vienna, I delete it.  It's not a bad solution for someone like myself.

  • dembow Level 1 Level 1 (90 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 3:05 AM (in response to paul1@mac.com)

    I would rather be completely without RSS than use etresoft's feed reader.

    iMac, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.2), 24-inch, Early 2008
  • etresoft Level 7 Level 7 (23,860 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Sep 30, 2012 6:02 AM (in response to eddy kestemont)

     

    eddy kestemont wrote:

     

    "Eventually, Safari would only be able to display headings and paragraphs and hide everything else. That is exactly what Safari's RSS reader does."

     

    And this is exactly what I need. And nothing else.

     

    There are many options for that. Google Reader, for example.

     

     

    BTW I find it a little bit troubling, somebody defending  vigorously a very poor decision of Apple and trying to make money selling his/her application, and this on a supposedly user/user forum.

     

    "This is a user-to-user discussion forum"

    Coming from you a developer this is a joke I suppose ?

     

    I am a developer, but I don't work for Apple. In this context, I am just another Apple customer. I'm sure I could reply with useless "me too" responses to get more positive forum feedback. I could even respond with suggestions for alternatives and just get ignored. I chose a use my skills as a developer to provide a solution with a completely new way to approach RSS feeds. The only thing I can't do is force Apple to add RSS back to Safari.

     

     

    poddan wrote:

     

    etresoft: yes, this a user-user forum not a forum to sell your app.

     

    Then I suggest you petition Apple to change the Terms of Use which explicitly allow such activity. Rest assured that my marketing is but a tiny fraction of my activity here on Apple Support Communities. Writing that RSS reader gave me more insight into the details of how RSS works (or doesn't) and I use that new knowledge to help other users on the forums. It also allows me to speculate (in blatant violation of the Terms of Use) about Apple's reasons for removing RSS from Safari and Mail.

     

    Guru Maximus wrote:

     

    Safari RSS had always worked (it was not broken)

    Safari was always very limited and is, in fact, broken on many feeds. It doesn't even work properly on RSS feeds for these forums. One of the primary reasons I wrote an RSS reader was to have a more efficient way to interact with these forums.

     

    forex420 wrote:

     

    My gripe is only that Apple removed the feature without explanation, presumably to sell more RSS readers in their app store.

    As opposed to all the other instances where Apple fully explains its logic and motivations for decprecating old technologies? Most RSS feed readers are free. Probably the most popular of all RSS feed readers is the free RSS service provided by Apple's Great Enemy Google. Considering that Apple's move actually pushes customers towards it primary competitor, it seems logical that the reason for the lack of RSS in Safari must be technical rather than marketing.

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