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  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well said Nusskappe.


    Like others, I was so excited when the system update was finally released for the Logic Lag problem. But it hasn't fixed the issues. As I've stated before...just another band-aid. A very half-*** band-aid at that. If there were ever such a major issue with the iPad or iPhone it would have been worked on round the clock and solved ASAP.


    I recently (and very reluctantly I might add) bought a new Mac Pro. Really wanted to finish out my home studio work station with a something more powerful, expandable and solid that my MacBook Pro. The simple fact that the Mac Pro line of computers seems to be dying a slow death made me extremely nervous. I don't think many would argue that the fact that the Mac Pro has been vurtually ignored for over TWO YEARS says it all. That said, I've been using Apple's Mac computers for over 15 I was hopeful.


    Bigger picture - this is a very strange time for folks like myself that have been die hard apple users, promoters and customers for so many years. The "creative professional industry" is what kept Apple growing to become what it is today. I feel the hard reality is that Apple no longer "needs" the Pro industry that kept it growing and thriving. With products like iPad's and iPhone's success, the Pro App market has become the drop in the bucket for Apple's bottom line profitability.


    It's really bitter-sweet for me. I still fight it. I still boot Logic and begin working. Then Logic/OSX starts it's nonsense. I take a deep breath because I'm reminded things are changing. If something is important gets fixed...and fast. That's it really.


    I hope I end up eating my own words. I hope 6 months from now Logic is flying like it used to. I hope the saying, "Good things come to those who wait" finally comes into play. I'd love all my suspicions to be flat out wrong. I really would.


    Hind-sight is 20/20. But I can't help but imagining what my studio would be like now had I taken all that money and invested in a powerful PC and Pro Tools. (Just like everyone else I know)

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    I agree with both of you.  And MadDog I'm in exactly the same position of you. I'm off to find a new DAW that will be more reliable.


    But about the whole Mac/PC thing... I really don't think there's much to gain from shifting to the PC side of things.  They seem to be in as much of a shift as Apple, and their tech support is famously WORSE than Apple's. 


    Man, I'm one confused pup.  But for sure it's important to have another App under your belt, just in case...  That's what I'm preparing for.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    "But about the whole Mac/PC thing... I really don't think there's much to gain from shifting to the PC side of things.  They seem to be in as much of a shift as Apple, and their tech support is famously WORSE than Apple's."



    I here you Fredo.


    But how "helpful" has Logic/Apple's fantastic tech support been with this issue? Humm? I will say that Apple's tech support folks are well trained and very polite on the phone. I guess that's a plus.


    The problem still exsists.

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    Logic tech support has been mostly nice, but generally ignorant.  It ultimately was a big waste of time, and thanks to two technicians (R. and L.G.) at times excruciatingly stressful and frustrating as well.


    But Apple tech support is good.  It's easy to get a hold of them, and they are usually quite knowledgeable and rather chipper in attitude. 


    That said... Logic Pro support = hellishly bad.  This tells me that what needs replacing in my workflow is definitely the DAW, and more research needs to be done before I switch over to a PC.

  • ZXC Level 2 (180 points)

    Some of you seem to think that the lag issues which occured with a new OS version + graphically active plugins  is something which should be solved not with an OS update, and not by changing how the plugins display their graphical activity, but with a Logic update. Why is that?



    But I can't help but imagining what my studio would be like now had I taken all that money and invested in a powerful PC and Pro Tools. (Just like everyone else I know)

    I invested in Pro Tools (sevral systems over several years), sold them all - and don't miss them. Pro Tools Mix/HD-TDM/HDX probably represents something like 3% of the DAW market today. There's simply no reason for most DAW users to have a DSP based system, let alone owning a Windows based system.


    Should you consider another DAW, monitor their user forums for a week first. They're all full of threads disucssing problems with their DAW, compatibility issues with various OS versions and so on.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    Yep. I agree.


    One of the big questions I have is how will current Mac Pro's hold up in the future with system updates, work flow mandates within application updates, compatability etc. etc.


    EG: I also score music to video I edit. I've switched to Premiere Pro and with the latest couple of Creative Suite updates you MUST have a graphics card that utilizes CUDA technology for advanced features within the application. To my suprise it wasn't hard to find a card because for a Mac the options/choices are less than the number of fingers I have on one hand! I also found that now the Mac's OS doesn't allow the benefits of "chaining" two Quadro 4000 cards together like a PC can. You can USE more that one card in a Mac Pro but the ONLY benefit you reap is the ability to run 3 or more monitors.


    All things said and done, the big power house tower PC computers are more prevelent in audio/video creative studios. There's probably a reason for that.

  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks for the info ZXC.


    I need and appreciate all angles and opinions at this point. I'm so dissapointed AND angry with this mess. I have to admit I'm probably my worst enemy concerning making a big change to remedy the issue.


    I'm meeting a good friend for lunch soon to pick his brain. He owns and operates a professional sound studio here in my city. He uses and has used Pro Tools on PC for years. Like I said he's a friend BUT he'll shoot me straight about the pro's and cons.

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    Hey, if you wouldn't mind sharing what you find from him, I'd be so grateful for the info as well...

  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    You bet Fredo.


    This guy is flat-out amazing. He's been doing sound his entire life and his work reflects this.


    I'll post my findings...Pro and Cons.

  • PDQ1 Level 1 (0 points)



    Apple themselves claimed that the Logic 9.1.8 update cured the problem so who can say whether it is the OS or the app?  THEY don't even know what's going on and that is extremely pathetic.


    One thing is for sure, Apple cannot legally be allowed to provide 'Pro' software that is unusable like this.


    Time is money and Apple owes me.

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    Can't agree with you more, PDQ1.  My Apogee Ensemble is still having ML issues and dropping sound every day.  My NEC monitor can't be properly setup due to conflicts with ML.  W T F  APPLE?!

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    And it would be all ok if only I could install Snow Leopard on my mid-2012 Mac Pro... but no dice.  Thank you so much, Apple!

  • Pancenter Level 6 (9,330 points)

    MadDog15 wrote:


    "But about the whole Mac/PC thing... I really don't think there's much to gain from shifting to the PC side of things.  They seem to be in as much of a shift as Apple, and their tech support is famously WORSE than Apple's."



    What do you think "PC" support is?  MS-Win is only the operating system, no one serious about audio uses a PC from a company like Dell or HP. There are 10 - 15 companies that build custom machines (for audio/video) from the ground up, to your spec including tweaking Windows 7 for audio use. (at least you can adjust the OS).

    Customer support from these companies is unparalleled. There's a lot of B.S. info out there on PC,s mostly spread an nurtured by Mac fanboys. Most of it is false, yes, you do have to know a little more about what you're doing, for one the hardware choices are near infinite, so you have to know what to buy. It's easy though... if you're industrious you can go to one of the custom PC audio sites and see what they're using in their machines and purchase the same hardware. My current quad core PC cost $800, a few hundred less than my used Mac Pro. Most of you won't believe this (or maybe you do.... now) Win 7 is far more efficient than Lion/ML 


    Macs ARE PC's, the main difference is the OS... if Apple switches away from Intel, Apple users will be faced with yet another huge series of expensive upgrades, some, if not all third party hardware will need to be replaced, new drivers for all hardware requiring drivers will have to be written... yet another huge compatibility mess.  

  • Fredo Viola Level 1 (30 points)

    good point about the compatibility mess.  And if only Apple would be transluscent about what their plans were...

  • MadDog15 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks Pancenter. I appreciate the input


    I also bought a 2012 Quad core. Mac Pro bottom end with just 6GB RAM. Paid about $2600. Maxed out the RAM to 32GB for $280 through Other World Computing. (same 32GB through Apple would have been $1000.) Upgraded the Graphics card with a Nvidia Quadro 4000 for $650 with rebate through B & H Photo. (Same exact card through Apple was $1200.)


    I've definately been guilty of the Mac Fanboy syndrom. But man i have to admit - when I look around and see 4 out of 5 guys that do what I do - that all use Windows PC's - that should tell me something. Regardless of how much "I think I know" about Mac vs PC, simple proof is sometimes so close to my face I fail to see it.


    Thanks for the info.

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