How to install OS X on a PPC G4 without an optical drive or another PPC?

Thanks!

You can boot from USB on PowerPC Mac, whether it's an iPod, flash drive, or exernal drive that is connected.

That's good to know!

But, you may be able to do the following. Start up the MacBook in FireWire Target Disk Mode (it should be connected to a power adapter instead running off its battery). Insert the 10.1.2 installation disc into the MacBook's optical drive.

Using a FireWire cable, connect the MacBook to the iMac G4, while it is powered off. Start up the iMac G4 and hold down the Option key before you hear the startup sound. This should bring up Startup Manager, where you can select to start up from available startup disks. IF (big "if") the MacBook's optical drive is available to the iMac G4 over FireWire Target Disk Mode, you will see the 10.1.2 installation disc as a choice. Select it and try to start up from it.

I did do this, and I could access the discs via the MacBook in TDM, but like I mentioned the 10.1.2 discs were not bootable from there, and the 10.4 disc was bootable but I couldn't install from it. I does seem to have been an Intel/PPC problem, as Kappy pointed out to me earlier today.

BUT not long after posting a friend contacted me with an external optical drive that I was able to borrow. That worked! At first, the 10.1 installation hung at the very end, so then I booted from the 10.4 disc and used disk utility (not available in the 10.1 installer) to erase the drive with the zero-out option selected, then shut down and installed 10.1...which worked.

FYI - 10.1.2 is kind of a waste of time. There is very little software that is compatible with it.

The 10.1 discs are the ones that came with the computer, while the 10.4 disc is...well...not. The computer was running 10.4 when we inherited it from a family member, but very, very slowly. It has 512 MB of RAM, and I'm pretty sure it's the original RAM that came with the computer 10 years ago. So, I wanted to install from the original discs and work with this OS at least until we can install new RAM and check that all the rest of the hardware is working properly. Which leads me to my next two questions, if you're up for it...

-We have a 700 MHz G4 processor, and on our machine, from what I can tell from this page, the RAM is expandable to 1 GB, specifically: "expandable to 1 GB using one user accessible 144-pin PC133 SODIMM (up to 512 MB) and one 168-pin PC133 DIMM (also up to 512 MB)." So, when I go buy RAM, how do I make sure that I get EXACTLY what I need? Just write that down, bring it to the store, and say, I want this precisely? I realize this is a newbie question, and we may have a friend help us get and install the RAM, but still, tips would be appreciated.

-I haven't been able to run the Apple Hardware Test. I have the AHT CD that came with the computer (v1.2), and I also downloaded v1.2.6 here and burned that to a CD. In both cases, when I load the CD into the external optical drive which is connected via a firewire cable (exactly what I used for the install disc), restart, and press and hold C, the computer ignores the CD completely and boots from the HD. Any idea how to fix this? Or, is there another function I can use to achieve the same thing, maybe in single user mode? Or perhaps I should use your earlier tip and boot from a USB...we have an iPod that I could plug in (i.e. something similar to this guide).

I'm totally aware that this is an absurdly outdated machine...such is life on a grad student stipend. I'm hoping it will last us at least 6 months to a year, when we'll likely be buying a new machine. We don't need it for anything special, just internet access and things like Hotmail and Google Calendar...the system requirements for which I need to go look up now.

RAM: great info. Thanks.

Interestingly, Apple says here that PC100, which is the RAM speed that the G4's had originally installed, "is not to be used with iMac (Flat Panel) computers and may create performance and reliability issues." We have PC100 in both slots--like I said, I don't think it's ever been replaced. I wonder if that's causing trouble? But, maybe it's still worth just replacing the user-accessible module to see if that improves things. I really wish I could run AHT to find out how the RAM is doing...

Regarding the Apple Hardware Test CD, holding down the C key will attempt to boot from the internal optical drive. Since there is nothing in there, it boots from the internal hard drive. I would try starting up with the Option key held down. That should get you to the Startup Manager screen. If that CD is in the external FireWire drive, it should be listed as a startup disk choice. Select it and see if it will start up from it.

Right, that makes sense. Unfortunately, in both cases, when I select the CD to start up from, the screen blinks for a second and then returns to the screen where I am supposed to choose a startup disc. It does this as many times as I try to choose the CD, until I select the HD and start up from there.

When I put either CD in the drive, with the computer on and booted from the HD, the CD mounts, and Disk Utility says it's verified. But when I try to select it as a startup disc from system preferences, it doesn't show up. Ideas??

Update: I tried Hoja's reccommendation from this thread using Open Firmware, but in response to

boot cd:\diags

It says:

can't OPEN: cd:\diags

for both CDs.

Thanks for the info!!

Re AHT: unfortunately, I did try that. Like I mentioned, when I select the CD to start up from in the Startup Manager, the screen blinks for a second and then returns to the Startup Manager. It does this as many times as I try to choose the CD, until I select the HD and start up from there. Also, when I put either CD in the drive, with the computer on and booted from the HD, the CD mounts, and Disk Utility says it's verified.

Other ideas?

Yet another update:

I tried the command from this article in Open Firmware:

boot cd:n,\\:tbxi

Replacing n with numbers 0-20. No luck.

rccharles wrote:

I modified my prior post.

Found running Safari for 10.4 takes 668meg or so of memory. Which is under the 768meg of memory.

Awesome, thanks.

Are you posting from the G4. It's working so the hardware except for the cd/DVD drive is ok. Once you have the feel for how the hardware work, hardware tests don't show much.

Nope, I'm on my macbook. Using Internet Explorer in 10.1 on the iMac, I was able to access some sites (main apple page, Google calendar) but not others (apple support pages, Hotmail). Software Update and Mail for some reason don't want to connect to the internet.

I made a hacked external dvd/cd drive. Got an external hd with ata connector inside. Old exclosure will be fine.. If you need to boot from external it must be fireware. Take apart. Pull out hd. Put in any cd/dvd drive. It won't fit in case, but who needs case. You need just the connector. There are connectors only for $15. Solvage PC cd/dvd drive.

I'm using an external optical drive connected via firewire right now, which is exactly the same thing I used to install. Any reason a hacked drive would work for this and the external I have wouldn't?

I have been thinking about going out and getting a firewire capable external HD (because I need one anyway). Is it possible that a disc image on an external HD would work where the external optical doesn't?

OR is there a way to test the non-HD hardware parts from the terminal, single user mode?

Or another way to force boot from Open Firmware?

I would just really like to get an idea of how everything is doing after 10 years of use (and about 8 failed installs and 20 restarts in the past few days). I don't really care about having the internal optical drive working, but before I go and upgrade the OS and software, I'd like to know if the logic board, HD, airport card, and particularly the RAM sticks are working properly. (We'll replace the user-access RAM anyway, but it would be good to know how the other one is working, as apple claimsthe original RAM in these computers is problematic.)

Maybe ProcessViewer would give me an idea about the RAM?

When started up normally, with the old Mac OS X, run System Preferences. With the Apple Hardware Test CD inserted in the external FireWire optical drive, go to the Startup Disk pane. Does that disc appear as a startup disk choice. If so, select it and try to start up from it.

Nope, it doesn't show up. I think I read somewhere that it's not supposed to though, since it doesn't really have an OS on it.

You were able to startup from the FireWire optical drive using the Mac OS X installation disc (to install the current system), so booting from the external FireWire drive does (normally) work.

So is it worth trying to boot from a disk image on an external HD via firewire?

When booted from the old version of Mac OS X, is there a specific problem that you are trying to trouble-shoot?

No, just general slowness (also some web pages not loading, other apps not connecting to the internet, as I mentioned above). I don't know if these issues are because of an old OS, slow processor/minimal RAM, or faulty hardware somewhere. I'd like to know what I can fix and what I can't. Basically, if I'm going to put in the effort to install new RAM, upgrade the OS, etc., I'd like to know what I'm dealing with.

Other ideas? Tx!

Fabulous, thank you. I do have the OS 9 install disc (amazingly, I seem to have every disc the computer originally came with) so I'll install that and try some of these tests.

In the meantime, I did run memtestfrom single user mode, after doing fsck, twice, with the following commands:

./memtest all 3

./memtest 256 -l

Both times I ran into a kernel panic (message "panic: we are hanging here...." and it freezes). Unfortunately I don't have a log file to show you since I had to shut it down manually.

Any idea what that means?