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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

BSOD - why?

I'm trying to idenfiy the source of the BSODs I've been getting on a new entry level retina MBP.


So far they have occured

-when installing windows 7

-when installing boot camp drivers

-when updating windows 7

-when playing 3d intenstive games or running 3d mark.


My first installation went smoothly, but the computer crashed during boot camp installation multiple times, even after a reinstall of windows.

I had the windows 7 iso on a external USB drive which has not been working well recently, so I thought my iso might be corrupted. I redownloaded windows and tried anew. This time boot camp installed well, but I got a single BSOD when updating windows. After a restart I tried updating a second time and no problems occured. At this stage I believed my windows installation to be sound.

I later tried to play Alien vs Predator (2010) an I would randomly get a BSOD saying "A clock interrupt was not received on a secondary processor within the allocated time interval". The same BSOD occured in the first few seconds of 3d mark vantage, but never precisely at the same point. This lead me to believe that the issue might be GPU/heat related.

I ran a dignostics tool on the BSOD dump file (forgot the name) and it said the problem might be heat related or a software (e.g. driver) error.

I thought a driver error might have been caused by the problems I had during the windows update, so I attempted a fresh install. This time I got the same BSOD during the installation procedure itself. Here is where my ideas end.


I'm by no means an expert, but the windows installation producing the same error as GPU intensive appliations does not seem to support the GPU/heat hypothesis. What else might it be? What diagnostic tools could I use? If something turns out to be defect indeed, how do I reproduce the problem in OS X - IIRC people in apple stores just shrug their shoulders when you tell them that something is windows is not working.


Any help is really appreciated!

MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012), Windows 7

Posted on Aug 10, 2012 6:51 AM

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User profile for user: The hatter
The hatter
User level: Level 9
60,990 points

Posted on Aug 10, 2012 7:12 AM

ISO has to be burned or written at slow 2x speed to succeed and have a good install.

Install alone may seem okay but fail.


I've seen people with RAM that "well it works in Lion" but was defective and failed memtest and even one where it was loose and not tight fit and secure in the DIMM socket. You might want to rule out ISO burning and RAM.


Copy the ISO to your disk and try using that to write the ISO to (another) USB device.

Instructions for the MacBook Air: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT4407


download a free iso burning program for Mac (we used SimplyBurns Mac). That program runs you through the necessary steps to properly burn the iso file you need. After doing so, Bootcamp recognized the installation file and everything worked as it should.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3410900?start=45&tstart=0


http://simplyburns.en.softonic.com/mac


Here's instructions on burning an ISO with Disk Utility:

And this thread on burning a Windows DVD in OSX:

(Summary: you can use Disk Utility to burn the ISO, but choose a slow burn speed)


Nvidia GT650M driver install: problems with windows 7 graphic driver after the installation Apple Support Software for Windows. The GT 650M was not showing up as the graphics adapter. I fixed the problem by inserting my windows support software CD a second time. I did not let it use auto run. I went into the Windows 7 directory and then into the Nvidia directory and ran setup.exe. This installed the Nvidia drivers for me. If this works correctly, you will have an Nvidia control panel available to you. I set the resolution to 2880x1800. I also set windows to 200% magnification.


I think what happens is that after you install windows, and then run the windows support CD, the main boot camp setup script seems to stop on the nvidia driver install--everything else installed correctly.


GPU-Z:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/

AIDA64 Extreme Edition

http://www.aida64.com

http://www.aida64.com/product/aida64-extreme-edition/overview

CCleaner

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

Lubbo FanControl for MacBook Pro

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lubbofancontrol/

TEMP cleanup

http://support.kaspersky.com/faq/?qid=208279128


How to view error message:

From Control Panel-> Admin. Tools-> Event Viewer-> Windows logs:
Check Application and System Folders for Red highlit messages. Note that you can right-click clear these log folders.

Memtest

This is a step by step guide with audio and video to explain how to use memtest to see if your memory is defect:

Another thing to add is that some errors will not be found on the first pass, best to do at least 3 passes.

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User profile for user: The hatter
The hatter
User level: Level 9
60,990 points

Aug 10, 2012 7:12 AM in response to Gareth G.

ISO has to be burned or written at slow 2x speed to succeed and have a good install.

Install alone may seem okay but fail.


I've seen people with RAM that "well it works in Lion" but was defective and failed memtest and even one where it was loose and not tight fit and secure in the DIMM socket. You might want to rule out ISO burning and RAM.


Copy the ISO to your disk and try using that to write the ISO to (another) USB device.

Instructions for the MacBook Air: https://support.apple.com/kb/HT4407


download a free iso burning program for Mac (we used SimplyBurns Mac). That program runs you through the necessary steps to properly burn the iso file you need. After doing so, Bootcamp recognized the installation file and everything worked as it should.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3410900?start=45&tstart=0


http://simplyburns.en.softonic.com/mac


Here's instructions on burning an ISO with Disk Utility:

And this thread on burning a Windows DVD in OSX:

(Summary: you can use Disk Utility to burn the ISO, but choose a slow burn speed)


Nvidia GT650M driver install: problems with windows 7 graphic driver after the installation Apple Support Software for Windows. The GT 650M was not showing up as the graphics adapter. I fixed the problem by inserting my windows support software CD a second time. I did not let it use auto run. I went into the Windows 7 directory and then into the Nvidia directory and ran setup.exe. This installed the Nvidia drivers for me. If this works correctly, you will have an Nvidia control panel available to you. I set the resolution to 2880x1800. I also set windows to 200% magnification.


I think what happens is that after you install windows, and then run the windows support CD, the main boot camp setup script seems to stop on the nvidia driver install--everything else installed correctly.


GPU-Z:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/SysInfo/GPU-Z/

AIDA64 Extreme Edition

http://www.aida64.com

http://www.aida64.com/product/aida64-extreme-edition/overview

CCleaner

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner

Lubbo FanControl for MacBook Pro

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lubbofancontrol/

TEMP cleanup

http://support.kaspersky.com/faq/?qid=208279128


How to view error message:

From Control Panel-> Admin. Tools-> Event Viewer-> Windows logs:
Check Application and System Folders for Red highlit messages. Note that you can right-click clear these log folders.

Memtest

This is a step by step guide with audio and video to explain how to use memtest to see if your memory is defect:

Another thing to add is that some errors will not be found on the first pass, best to do at least 3 passes.

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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 10, 2012 7:48 AM in response to The hatter

Thanks for your reply!


I don't have a physical copy of windows - the iso came straight from the internet (legally). I ran memtest on two passes (should maybe do more) under OS X and everything seemed fine.


I just did another sucessful install. 3d Mark Vantage still crashed about half a minute in.


I will run some of the other diagnostic tools you linked and post more later.

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User profile for user: The hatter
The hatter
User level: Level 9
60,990 points

Aug 10, 2012 8:23 AM in response to Gareth G.

The only issue with ISO is the method they are burned is all. And that is a 100% reproducable issue of people coming here. Disk Utility can burn the image to disc but just has to be reduced to slowest speed possible (DVD media can play a role, many use a USB thumb drive of course).


Wish there was an official tech note, we had to learn this lesson the hard way.

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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 10, 2012 8:53 AM in response to The hatter

I installed windows via a USB thumb drive since this computer doesn't even have an optical drive.


As recommended I ran AIDA and tried its stability test. The defaul test stresses CPU, FPU, cache and system memory. After about 10-20 seconds the computer froze (no BSOD).

I tried again stressing individual compnents. The fans capped out at 5k and 4.5k rpm, but the system held. When stressing the GPU, mouse mouvenents had a "hickup" freezing for about half a second every 2-3 seconds.

Lastly I stared with GPU, waited for the temeratures to stabilize, then added CPU, waited, added FPU, waited, then added cache which resulted in the same BSOD as originally described in a matter of seconds.

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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 10, 2012 9:57 AM in response to Gareth G.

I tried Lubbo Fan control, but it seems to read misread the CPU and goes full force on the left fan. When I tried to close the program, I received a generic error message. Upon rebooting to OS X the high fan speed (6krpm) persisted. I shut down the coputer entirely and then rebooted. Now the fans in windows don't seem to respond to head anymore (I don't have a way of testing in OS X yet).


Does Lubbo Fan control directly access and override the SMC settings (applying to all operating systems)? Do I need to reset the SMC?

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User profile for user: The hatter
The hatter
User level: Level 9
60,990 points

Aug 10, 2012 1:39 PM in response to Gareth G.

reset SMC


For "Mac wont' turn on or boot" and related

https://support.apple.com/kb/TS1367


then links to SMC Reset for notebooks

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3964


Resetting the System Management Controller (SMC)

Resetting the SMC on Mac portables with a battery you can remove

Note: Learn about removing the battery on MacBook and MacBook Pro.


  1. Shut down the computer.
  2. Disconnect the MagSafe power adapter from the computer, if it's connected.
  3. Remove the battery.
  4. Press and hold the power button for 5 seconds.
  5. Release the power button.
  6. Reconnect the battery and MagSafe power adapter.
  7. Press the power button to turn on the computer.

Resetting the SMC on portables with a battery you should not remove on your own


Resetting the SMC on portables with a battery you should not remove on your own

Note: Portable computers that have a battery you should not remove on your own include MacBook Pro (Early 2009) and later, all models of MacBook Air, and MacBook (Late 2009).


  1. Shut down the computer.
  2. Plug in the MagSafe power adapter to a power source, connecting it to the Mac if its not already connected.
  3. On the built-in keyboard, press the (left side) Shift-Control-Option keys and the power button at the same time.
  4. Release all the keys and the power button at the same time.
  5. Press the power button to turn on the computer.
    Note    : The LED on the MagSafe power adapter may change states or temporarily turn off when you reset the SMC.
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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 10, 2012 2:16 PM in response to Gareth G.

Ok, I think I have pinned down the issue more or less.


I put some load on the CPU in OS X to generate some heat. The fans did kick in, so no SMC reset necessary. Also I've read that it only affects OS X anyway.


As for windows, Lubbo's Fan Control somehow does not detect the CPU and GPU temeratures - the program always shows 90°C and hence cranks the fans to its max setting which can be set up to 6krpm.


I tried running 3d Mark Vantage again with fans at 6krpm and it went through smoothly (10749 with temperature monitor in the background. Temparatures maxed out in the high 80ies. No crashes.


However, if I put on the burn with AIDA, I still get the bluescreen, even with the fans at max 😟.


To have windows run ok, I would just need a working fan control (I don't want to manually adjust fan speed every time I launch a demanding application). Additionally, I can try underclocking the GPU a bit. It worked miracles on my first gen unibody MBP under win XP. Any ideas what tools I might try?


If everything fails and I can get the MBP to crash in OS X, is it eligible for a replacement?

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User profile for user: The hatter
The hatter
User level: Level 9
60,990 points

Aug 10, 2012 2:55 PM in response to Gareth G.

Almost any tool there is will be in the thread I posted above.


http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/30530-latest-overclocking-programs-system-i nfo-benchmarking-stability-tools.html


The idea of some fan control programs is to manually set a base speed that is higher than the default; to have multiple profiles so you can go to menu bar with OS X SmcFanControl 2.x and that sets a new fan set all so you can take proactive preventative action - rather than wait until the heat is there which is then harder to dispell.


I use EVGA Precision on Nvidia but the above shows a couple others.


If you check AIDA64 to let you know of new stable and beta there is usually about one new build per week or so.


There has not really been any whatsoever good reliable fan speed control for Macs running Windows - there was for Vista with InputRemapper but I hear that is dead on newer Macs and maybe not safe with Windows 7 now (there were a lot of changes to drivers for one thing).


Most GPUs lately will automatically downlclock - GTX 4xx and later or AMD 6xxx series.


If AHT fails yes. If it gets into Tjmax . some good links from here -

http://www.bing.com/search?q=thermal+junction+processor+i5


This was helpful to me when building a couple systems -

http://www.overclock.net/t/476469/the-truth-about-temperatures-and-voltages


3DMark11 and Vantage:


I just have to remove both 3dm11 and 3dmvantage

and remove Futuremark SystemInfo.

Install the latest ver. of 3DmVantage and volia. back to normal.


if you use vantage and 3dmark 11 its common knowledge that the system info gets corrupted and causes vantage to go crazy in sli after 3d mark 11 is installed.


http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=766460&mpage=1


Stability Testing thread:

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1071956


It for today!

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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 11, 2012 2:04 AM in response to The hatter

I managed to find a working solution for the fan control under windows 7.

Lubbo's had some initial issues (CPU sensor would be at 90C constantly), but I checked their forums and found a solution. It turns out with the new retina macbooks, the name of the CPU sensor has changed. For those interested, it's all in here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/lubbofancontrol/forums/forum/970570/topic/539412 2


Hatter, thanks for your help!

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User profile for user: Gareth G.
Gareth G. Author
User level: Level 1
10 points

Aug 12, 2012 9:03 AM in response to The hatter

I'll check if that gives anything.


In an attept to try to reproduce the freeze in OS X I downloaded steam there. Unfortunately Portal2 is not working in Mountain Lion (know issue, valve needs to fix this one), I'm currently downloading Left4Dead.

Here is the interesting part:


I forced OS X to use the Geforce 650M and while downloading Portal 2, the system froze. At the time I also had an extenal apple display plugged in. I restarted, it froze again. Then again. I uplugged the display and then it finished the download without further crashes.

However, I manage to downlaod HL2 without problems and now the Left4Dead downlaod hasn't caushed a crash yet. I redownloaded Portal2 and it also went smoothly.


This makes me think that the problem is hardware related. It probably invovles GPU, but might be something else as well.

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BSOD - why?

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