Previous 1 2 Next 16 Replies Latest reply: Sep 3, 2012 3:02 PM by Ramón G Castañeda
Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

After not using my Dual Bootable  DP 1.25 GHz MDD G4 for a couple of months, it's now freezing during the boot process.

 

What's weird is that it boots in Target Mode just fine, and when connected in this mode to my G5 Quad, it actually boots the G5 Quad in Target Mode just fine!    The G4 drive shows in fact as the boot drive on the G5 Quad's monitors.

 

I was able to boot off a retail Tiger 10.4.6 disk, so I did an erase and install of a fresh Tiger OS 10.4.6, which I promptly updated to 10.4.11.  After trying and failing umpteen times to boot off the HD, even in safe mode, I ended up being utterly unable to get either of the Super Drives to open normally, so I had to resort to the straightened paper clip trick to retrieve the install DVD.

 

Now even the paper clip fails to open either of the optical drives.

 

I have twice wiped the HD from the G5 Quad after booting up in Target Mode, and installed fresh copies of Tiger 10.4.11 as described, with the Tiger install DVD in the SuperDrive of the G5 Quad.

 

Since in Target Mode the G5 Quad boots just fine of the G4 HD, I think I can rule out the Hard Drive.

 

I think I can rule out the battery too, as it boots fine in Target Mode and in the regular boot process it sometimes gets as far as playing the OS fresh install music after going through the registration process.

 

I do have the original install disks with AHT 2.0.2 that came with the G4, but I can't get the optical drives open to insert the disk in either one of them.

 

I'm thinking it could be bad RAM, but why would the optical drives be stuck, both of them??!

 

I'd be most grateful for any tips as to what to try next.


PowerMac, Mac OS X (10.4.11), 2.5G5Quad,16GB,7800GTX 512MB, Tiger
  • Texas Mac Man Level 8 Level 8 (46,540 points)

    Do a PMU reset.

     

    Resetting Cuda/PMU on Power Mac G5, Power Mac G4, Power Macintosh G3

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86760

     

     Cheers, Tom

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Thanks, Texas Mac Man, but that link appears to lead to the generic support portal. 

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,875 points)

    Dang, Aple keeps moving the furniture for no good reason.

     

    How to reset the SMU/PMU on a Power Mac Earlier G3, G4, G5 models...

     

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1939

     

    http://www.macusersguide.com/2009/05/resetting-pram-nvram-pmu/

     

    Not the only ones I guess.

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Thank you, Tom and BDAqua.

     

    Well, I found the CUDA or (PUM reset), and I pressed it once as per the instructions.

     

    No luck.  It started fine, the grey apple with the spinning radian appeared to be running normally for 10 or 15 seconds (maybe 20), then it went to a very pale-blueish screen and it froze there.

     

    Maybe it is the battery after all?  But then how come it boots just fine in Target Mode?  Even to the point of completing the boot process on the G5 Quad when connected to it in Target Mode?

     

    Most puzzling!

     

    Thank goodnes I'm not preoccupied with saving any data or anything else on that drive.

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Thanks, BDAqua, you posted while I was composing my reply to Tom's post; but I managed to squeeze in a thank you to yoo too.

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Even though re-setting the PUM had no effect, I thought I'd leave the illustration here, just in case someone is looking for that tiny part on this computer at some future date, because none of the links above had anything resembling the logic board of my Dual Bootable, Dual Processor 1.25 GHz MDD G4, made in April of 2004.

     

    Hardware Overview:

     

      Machine Name:    Power Mac G4

      Machine Model:    PowerMac3,6

      CPU Type:    PowerPC G4  (3.3)

      Number Of CPUs:    2

      CPU Speed:    1.25 GHz

      L2 Cache (per CPU):    256 KB

      L3 Cache (per CPU):    2 MB

      Memory:    2 GB

      Bus Speed:    167 MHz

      Boot ROM Version:    4.4.8f2

     

    Picture 28.png

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Any further ideas?

     

    I really want to save this machine because it's the most advanced Mac that can boot straight into native Mac OS 9.2.2 I've got. 

  • BDAqua Level 10 Level 10 (119,875 points)

    Could it be the RAM?

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Thanks for sticking with me, BDAqua.  I'm grateful for the tenacity and persistence you have shown on this forum throughout the years.

     

    If the RAM is not involved in any way in the machine booting up in Target Mode, then I suppose it could be the RAM.  Unfortunately, I have no way of testing it now, at least not until I can manage to get at least one the two optical drives. 

     

    That's another thing that has me puzzled, why I haven't been able to open the optical drives.  Even a longish, strong paper clip doesn't feel like it's hitting anything or meeting any resistance when I insert it through any of the visible openings of the drives.     

     

    I don't understand how bad or improperly set RAM could jam both drives even physically.

     

    My next course of action is going to be to pull out the flashed nVidia GeForce 7800 GS 425MHz 256 MB "mutant" flashed graphics display card and install the original video card that came with the G4 Quad.

     

    That there's now a valid OS on the HD is proven by the machine being able to boot up even the G5 Quad when in Target Mode.

     

    Just in case the battery is somehow involved, I've ordered fresh batteries online, as they are a third of the price at the local Radio Shack.

     

    As I said, I'm fortunate that I have the G5 Quad as my main working machine, as well as a working MacBook with Snow Leopard 10.6.8, and that I'm not concerned with saving any data or anything like that.

     

    If you or anybody else has any other thoughts, I'm all ears.

     

    Thanks again

  • japamac Level 7 Level 7 (24,390 points)

    Hey-

     

    Reseat the RAM and graphics/PCI cards.

     

    Oh, disconnect the ethernet cable if connected.

     

    As for the optical drives, reseat the ATA connectors, both at the drive and at the logic board.

    Heck, do the same for all ATA cables.

     

    After that, reseat the processor.

     

    Regarding the paperclip push, if slightly out of alignment, the area to push and move the mechanism can be easily missed.

    Rebend the clip  or reapproach the push.....

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Thank you, japamac, those are all sound suggestions.

     

    I have taken out the graphics card and re-seated it, but I do also have a couple of SCSI PCI cards that I had not thought of re-seating.  I'll do that now, and I will reseat all four RAM modules.

     

    I have hopes that exchanging the graphics card for the original one will help.  I have a vague recollection of having to replace a kext file for a custom one when I installed the flashed card years ago, after which the PRAM had to be zapped.  Glad I kept the original graphics card.

     

    The ATA connectors on the drives hadn't crossed my mind.  Great suggestion too!

     

    After that, reseat the processor.

     

    Can you clarify, please?  Are you referencing the actual CPU?    I've never re-seated one, except for the  G4 ZIF upgrade in my Beige G3 Mini Tower. 

     

    Regarding the paperclip push, if slightly out of alignment, the area to push and move the mechanism can be easily missed.

    Rebend the clip  or reapproach the push.....

    Will do.  If it's out of alignment it must have been bent out of alignment into the next county, because there's enough room there to move the clip around without it meeting any kind of object I can feel at all, and it's at least 7.5 inches long.

     

    Thank you once again. 

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Another thought to throw into the mix:  Not too long ago, I uninstalled the two larger internal (IDE/PATA) hard drives from the two front bays to stick them in external FireWire enclosures for use with the Quad and the MacBook.  I wonder if I was supposed to have done something about jumpering the two remaining 160 GB drives in the back bay? ??

  • japamac Level 7 Level 7 (24,390 points)

    Jump all hard drives Cable Select and place the intended Master on the end connector of each IDE ribbon (each bus).

    Can you clarify, please?  Are you referencing the actual CPU?

    Yes. A very fine layer of corrosion on one or more of the 300 pins could render the machine incapable of achieving logic.

     

    The step should be performed after doing all the other reseats that I suggested.

    I've never re-seated one,

    Not so difficult.

    Replacement of the thermal compound is a requisite part of the proceedure, however.

    Use Arctic Cooling MX-4.

    No worries if a bit too much is applied, unlike silver based compounds....... bzzzZZTT! Dead CPU.

     

    My tutorial:

    9AE7FE0E-0CF2-4A7C-8003-489B282582BC.html

     

    I posted this for someone who wanted to remove a MDD logic board (edited for clarity, I hope):

     

    To remove the logic board (of a MDD):

     

    -Disconnect all cables connected to the logic board.

     

    -Remove any PCI cards, and RAM.


    -Find and remove the five screws that hold the heatsink. Remove the heatsink.


    -Remove the processor board by lifting the edges of the daughter card. After successfully pulling the card free from the connector, it might help to slide the processor board a bit to the rear and/while lifting out, being careful to clear the two mounting pegs.

     

    -Find and remove the one screw that holds the logic board.

     

    -Slide the logic board away from the back panel, lifting to avoid the chassis hooks.

     

    You need to pay attention to the three steps in bold. There is no screw retaining the CPU daughter card. It is sandwiched between the heatsink and the logic board socket.

  • Ramón G Castañeda Level 4 Level 4 (1,460 points)

    Ouch! 

     

    I'm afraid all of that's beyond me. 

     

    I'm useless when it comes to hardware, really.

     

    No  way am I even going to attempt the CPU reseating, with thermal paste, etc.  I'm not even sure I understand the first instruction to "jump all hard drives Cable Select and place the intended Master on the end connector of each IDE ribbon (each bus)."  I'm just going to have to find a local tech willing to work on a G4.

     

    Thanks for all your help in any event, japamac.

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