deeply confused

Question

deeply confused

why? first know the following: I have only 9 GIGS free out of my so called 60 Gig Hard Drive. I am a Logic Pro user and need to score a friend's short film early this week. I copied the film onto the computer - and it starts and stops... I think my email may be the problem...

I have 4 GIGS of email that I want to archive and get off my laptop... because I need to free up the space, and a local mac guru suggested my computer may be acting funny (which it is) because of it.

I've been trying to solve this problem for about a month. First I was missing emails since upgrading to Tiger (see below if you got time):

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=373411&tstart=0

Now, I seem to have back the missing emails... thanks to Ernie Stamper. So, now I want to copy them, or archive them first (save as rich text documents) to CD. Then get everything off my laptop.

I'm not sure which archive program to use... one suggested MailSteward, another on this board suggested the Mail Scripts. Either way, I want to save the archived versions, and the original mboxes - or whatever I'd have to save, in case I need to import at a later date... just extra protection from losing email.

Not to mention - it seems CD's only hold about 700 MB... how can I save more over 2 CD's??

I'm deeply confused how to proceed.

Thanks in advance.

1 Ghz PowerBook G4, Mac OS X (10.4.5), 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM. I also have 40 gig iPod.

Posted on Apr 3, 2006 9:58 AM

Reply

Answer 1

Apr 3, 2006 10:19 AM in response to misterioso270

Hi, yet again,

In the Finder, open Home/Library and locate the folder named "Mail Downloads" -- control-click over it, and choose Get Info, to check its size? This might be one place where space is needlessly used.

In Mail, in any mailbox, you can Select All messages, and then Save As, to select one of three or so options. Rich Text is one. When you save this one mailbox (or some group of selected messages) it can be burned to its own CD. There is no need to take the step of saving in a format, such as Rich Text, for all mailboxes at one time.

More info, please.

Ernie

Reply

Answer 2

Apr 3, 2006 11:59 AM in response to Ernie Stamper

Ha! Hi Ernie - thank you.

I emailed you a couple of days ago - perhaps you can take a look, if you haven't already at my response:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=373411&start=15&tstart=0

I looked at the Mail Downloads - only 18 MB.

Your idea for archiving puts all the emails in one text document - (at least when I tried it just now). I am looking to archive everything separately... so I can 'search' and find specific emails. Which I don't think I can do if all emails are attatched to 1 document.

The crux of my confusion is regarding where you and I left off a few weeks ago. During our posting back and forth (in thread above, but need to go to page 1 is you have time)... you got me to where my 'missing emails' from Panther - were saved thanks to you). During the postings back and forth - you had said you were concerned about a few things, but we'd address them after the Panter emails were re-imported into Tiger.

It is those things that I'm concerned about first. And that's mainly why I'm confused. It seemed that the conversion from Panther to Tiger added a lot of extraneous files, and you think we need to 'clean up' everything... I'm wondering specifically what those things may be.

I hope this is clear. i am indeed 'deeply confused'.

thanks ernie.

Reply

Answer 3

Apr 3, 2006 12:17 PM in response to misterioso270

In our earlier exchanges, and then again today here I asked if in ANY mailbox (xxxx.mbox) there were now any files OTHER than the Info.plist file? My use of "concerned" was if we needed to force Mail to re-index all mailbox, the presence of any other files worried me.

Furthermore, I would like to be sure that you think all your messages are in fact present, and accounted for, and now you are only worried about archiving in some manner to gain needed HD space?

So, do all xxxx.mbox folders only have Info.plist and Messages? Your statement of "It seemed that the conversion from Panther to Tiger added a lot of extraneous files" seems to suggest there are? This observation can only be made in the Finder, and not from within the Mail program.

Ernie

Reply

Answer 4

fu

Level 2

455 points

Apr 3, 2006 12:52 PM in response to misterioso270

misterioso,

Most of the problems you experience are due to bad habbits or total ignorance on how to work with Pro/Serious Apps...

I have only 9 GIGS
free out of my so called 60 Gig Hard Drive. I am a
Logic Pro user and need to score a friend's short
film early this week. I copied the film onto the
computer - and it starts and stops...

Well, you just experienced the dropped-frames phenomenon, take a look at my feedback for a user with similar problems here: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=2055760#2055760

I think my email may be the problem...
I have 4 GIGS of email that I want to archive and get
off my laptop... because I need to free up the space,
and a local mac guru suggested my computer may be
acting funny (which it is) because of it.

Now, this is totally wrong: 4gigs of mail, Logic Pro, and the video file you want to work with are on the same disk/partition...

That won't take you very far unfortunately...

Also, any so-called "mac guru" that hears your problem and instead of suggesting you to set up your mac for professional use, tells you to sort-out your email, is probably just a "consumer-mac guru"...

If you want a good starting point on how to set-up your Mac here's what you should do:

Keep an eye on Apple's resources: http://www.apple.com/support/logic/

and start visiting Professional Audio forums like this: http://logicprohelp.com/

As I posted on the thread mentioned above, a shortcut for a decent setup is like this:

1) Make a clean and customized intallation of the OS on a seperate disk (if that's not possible then at least on a seperate partition of the same disk). Customized to your workflow/needs, turning off each and every blink/blonk gizmo that ***** precious processing power from your system (ie dashboard, window/visual effects etc).

This setup will be used for audio work only. Forget e-mail, net services etc, they'll only make your work difficult/impossible.

2) Buy a quality seperate HD (since you're using a PB get an external FireWire HD) to use as scratch disk. This is where your media files should be edited, and keep it clean + defragmented.

3) Step off the illusion that you can do everything from one single MacOS installation on a single HD. General-computing is consumer-computing, professional work requires customization, time and an appetite for knowledge...

hth

Pismo - MacMini - Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.5) SGI O2 R12K/400/1G/Irix 6.5.29

Reply

Answer 5

Apr 3, 2006 1:07 PM in response to fu

Hello,

Whether your reference about "consumer-mac guru", is to me or not, I shall not worry about. Nor do I disagree with choices often made to optimize the use of Pro apps, such as separate scratch disks for Final Cut, as I practice.

However, this poster began with serious flaws in the conversion of mail from Panther into Tiger, which have not yet been sorted out. Not doing so will have serious repercussions for the use of Mail, and that is what I am assisting with. In addition, I am assisting in a sincere request to archive mail messages in some manner to create additional disk space, which will be needed for any general use of the Mac.

Only in recent posts has the issue of using Logic come about, and your points re: its use are well taken. But do not fail to see the overall problem.

All the best,

Ernie

Reply

Answer 6

Apr 3, 2006 1:10 PM in response to Ernie Stamper

Hi,

Cool. We're on the same page! Thanks for showing me your response to someone else's post. Apple emails did not alert me. Anyhow, perhaps I can be even clearer:

My first goal is to make sure all my email is accounted for and conversion was successful from Panther to Tiger. (I'm not sure what to look at to be sure of this... you had me comparing .mbox with message folder sizes).

Second goal is to consolidate all the email and prepare in the best way for archiving/backing up. This would include understanding what you were 'concerned' about the first go around. The archiving question is something I'll be able to deal with on my own... or I don't know what. But the main thing is making sure, as you've mentioned... that I'm even ready to do that.

Now to answer your question... (I hope)... there is more than just .plist's and .mbox's. This is a little long - but, since I've never done any of this under the hood stuff before - a picture is worth a thousand words - here is what I see:

If I go to Home/Library/Mail... here's what I got: 9 files and 5 folders:

Files:

DefaultCounts
Envelope Index
LSMMap2
MessageRules.plist
MessageRules.plist.backup
MessageSorting.plist
MessageSorting.plist.backup
OpenedAttachments.plist
SmartMailboxes.plist

Folders:

Mailboxes
POP - numberone@xxx.xx
POP - numbertwo@xxx.xx
POP - numberthree@xxx.xx
Signatures

If I go to the Mailbox folder, inside I get 12 folders (the imports from Disk Saver's .mbox's when my computer crashed 2 years ago):

4-1-05 rescue 1
4-1-05 rescue 3
2004.mbox
Deleted Messages.mbox
Import
Import-2
Import-3
Import-4
Import-5
Import-7
Import-8
Outbox.mbox

If I go into - let's say the folder that says 'Import' - I see this:

6 folders and two files?:

files

inbox.mbox (Entourage Mailbox... why, I'm not sure... I don't use Entourage)
info.plist

Folders:

Deleted Messages.mbox
Drafts OLD.mbox
Inbox.OLD.mbox
Keepers 2003.mbox
Sent OLD.mbox
Trashed OLD.mbox

If I go into let's say - Inbox.OLD.mbox... I get 6 files and 1 Folder:

Files:

content_index
info.plist
mbox
mbox.SKindex
mbox.SKindex.isValid
table ofcontents

Folder:

Messages

It seems many of the folders anywhere within the Mail folder has more than a .plist and a .mbox

Where should I start to make sure everything has been properly converted? Should I start all over again and double check .mbox vs. messages folder's size? Import every mbox (that'd be like 17 imports?) And after all of that... your concerns before archiving/getting off laptop.

I'm in your hands... thank you. my apologies if this is too much info... just steer me what to show/tell.

Many thanks!

Reply

Answer 7

Apr 3, 2006 1:27 PM in response to misterioso270

Great!

Let's deal with the one, Inbox.OLD.mbox you provided the details for. My concern for files OTHER than Info.plist is perfectly illustrated with it, where we find in addition, the files content_index, mbox, mbox.SKindex, mbox.SKindex.isValid and table ofcontents. These five files are ALL NOT NEEDED or used by Mail 2.0. These are the files addressed in the Some mailbox files used by Mac OS X 10.3 are not deleted after importing article that I have referenced several times, and that you should study, carefully.

With these five, leftover files, two are leftover from Jaguar, and would never have been used in Panther, and two are related to Panther index and table of contents, no longer used in Tiger. Of the five, only the one name "mbox" is of any interest to us. And our interest in the mbox file, is to compare its size to the size of the Messages folder. If fully converted, the size of the Messages folder should equal, or exceed the size of the mbox file, to hold the same number of messages. That is the whole point of comparing mbox to Messages.

If you feel from this comparison, and observation while in Mail and the mailbox that the messages are all there, then all five files can be deleted. If not, then you should consider another attempt at converting the mbox to the needed Messages folder, and on that I can further advise.

This sort of analysis should be done for EVERY xxxx.mbox folder, whether in the Mailboxes folder or in some account folder.

One outcome of sorting this out, will be cutting your Mail folder size roughly in half, when finally the all the old mbox files are removed.

Does this now make some more sense? I will be out until rather late tonight, but I hope you can process, and become more comfortable with the task.

Ernie

Reply

Answer 8

fu

Level 2

455 points

Apr 3, 2006 2:08 PM in response to Ernie Stamper

Whether your reference about "consumer-mac guru", is
to me or not, I shall not worry about.

No reference to you Ernie, I have the impression that by "local" mysterioso is refering to someone outside the forums, probably the one who got his mac from.

I'd never offend someone just for kicks, especially someone in the discussions who takes the time to help others...

Nor do I
disagree with choices often made to optimize the use
of Pro apps, such as separate scratch disks for Final
Cut, as I practice.

However, this poster began with serious flaws in the
conversion of mail from Panther into Tiger, which
have not yet been sorted out. Not doing so will have
serious repercussions for the use of Mail, and that
is what I am assisting with. In addition, I am
assisting in a sincere request to archive mail
messages in some manner to create additional disk
space, which will be needed for any general use of
the Mac.

Only in recent posts has the issue of using Logic
come about, and your points re: its use are well
taken. But do not fail to see the overall problem.

Again, I have the impression that this user tries to work with Pro Apps and all I'm trying to do is help too. You may have already noticed that more and more people who try to work with such Apps visit the discussions asking questions about how to optimize their work (sadly most of the times these people have had completely wrong guidance in the first place, having spent reasonable amounts of money in "gurus" and their questions remained unanswered)...

I'm doing professional visual work myself and I'm happy to share my experience/knowledge with other people (in the similar orbit) just starting with computers...I'm sure you know that for a beginner (esp. someone who likes to do specific work on a computer: musician, filmmaker, illustrator, etc) there's quite a lot of information to be poured over, and providing him/her with good advice is invaluable...

I apologize in advance if my initial post raised your eybrows but I had no such intention...

btw: why the "edit post" button disappears soon after posting and why there's no "private messaging" in Apple Discissions?

Pismo - MacMini - Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.5) SGI O2 R12K/400/1G/Irix 6.5.29

Message was edited by: fu

Reply

Answer 9

Apr 3, 2006 2:07 PM in response to fu

Hi fu,

Appreciated your thoughts... I post questions on the Apple Logic Pro Discussion board often. However, as Ernie replied... the point of this post is about my email... as it's a big problem if you read the thread/link I included in my original post.

As far as my local 'mac guru' goes... yeah, he doesn't know much about Logic. However, he set up my computer a couple of years ago WAY BEFORE I bought Logic Pro... so there you go.

Regarding my 'Pro App" - I've only been using Logic Pro for about 6 months... however have exclusively been using MIDI. So setting up Logic Pro in a 'pro environment' hasn't been a huge issue for me - YET. I'm just starting to really use the program. However, within a few months, I'll probably buy an audio interface, an external hard drive dedicated just for Logic, etc... but, for now - I've been getting by - as the program takes a little time to learn and I believe - I could be wrong - MIDI files are pretty small in comparison to live audio needing to be saved.

I will look at your suggestions in more detail in regards to preparing my next move towards a 'pro environment'. And will look at the drop frame thing in Quicktime.

Cheers!

Reply

Answer 10

fu

Level 2

455 points

Apr 3, 2006 2:12 PM in response to misterioso270

Happy to help mysterioso,

As I replied to Ernie eralier, I'm sorry if my initial post gave the wrong impression..

Feel free to start discussions about customizing your environment 🙂

Pismo - MacMini - Dual G5 Mac OS X (10.4.5) SGI O2 R12K/400/1G/Irix 6.5.29

Reply

Answer 11

Apr 3, 2006 2:21 PM in response to fu

Hi again,

You wrote: "btw: why the "edit post" button disappears soon after posting and why there's no "private messaging" in Apple Discissions?".

The Edit button should be available for four or five minutes, normally, but then times out. Sometimes the servers are messed up, and the opportunity to Edit may be lost more quickly. Some users include an email address (as do I in my Profile, bio line), but otherwise private messaging is not supported, and is probably not encouraged by Apple.

All the best,

Ernie

Reply

Answer 12

Apr 4, 2006 8:41 AM in response to Ernie Stamper

Excellent!

This morning I went through all the mailboxes in the MAILBOXES folder inside the MAIL folder. (user/library/mail/mailboxes). There are 12. These Mailboxes I see as folders when using and having opened the application Mail. Of course, these were the attempts (and they worked) to re-import my original email from 2003-2004 that was saved from the DVD's that Disk Savers provided. We were using Panther at the time, and importing into Panter also. I went to the Apple Store, and a 'genius' helped me import these from the DVD's. Some we had trouble with - some not. (Now I recall why I see an Entourage icon somewhere among the folders - a 'genius' tried to import via Entourage - though the mail was originally made in Mail). So, it seems all my emails are intact - however they are spread out all over the place in these little folders.

I have a few questions... but I'll hold off 'til I get your thoughts. I am including the fairly long list of Mailboxes. I did not include the files - that you mention I'll probably be able to get rid of. However, this list will give you an exact idea of the disorganization, and why I'm a little nuts with the idea of consolidating and cleaning up. Til next post - THANK YOU.

Mailboxes (folder inside MAIL folder)

* 4-1-05 rescue 1 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages
- info.plist

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox file: 9.7 MB
- Messages folder: 10.6 MB
DONE

* 4-1-05 rescue 3 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages
- mbox: 10 MB
- messages (folder): 10.5 MB

Drafts.mbox
- mbox: 5.4 MB
- messages (folder): 9.16 KB

INBOX.mbox
- mbox: 79.7 MB
- messages (folder): 84.2 MB

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox: 184.7 MB
- messages (folder): 194.1 KB
DONE

* 2004.mbox (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder)

3 files: content_index, info.plist, table ofcontents
DONE

* Deleted Messages.mbox (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

- mbox: 4K
- Messages: 0 K

* Import (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages.mbox

Drafts OLD.mbox
- mbox: 1.4 MB
- Messages (folder): 1.4 MB

Inbox. OLD.mbox
- mbox: 471.3MB
- Messages (folder): 483.2 MB

Keepers 2003.mbox
- mbox: 92 KB
- Messages (folder): 192 KB

Sent OLD.mbox
- mbox: 467.7 MB
- Messages (folder): 471.8 MB

Trashed OLD.mbox
- mbox: 5.6 MB
- Messages (folder): 5.8 MB
DONE

* Import-2 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages.mbox
- Messages (folder): 3.5 MB

Drafts.mbox (folder): 3.9 MB
- mbox: 1.4 MB
- Messages (folder): 1.4 MB

Inbox.mbox (folder)
- Messages (folder) : 47.6 MB

Sent Messages.mbox (folder)
- messages (folder): 595.1 MB
DONE

* Import-3 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Drafts.mbox (folder): 3 MB
DONE

*Import-4 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages.mbox
- Messages (folder): 116 KB

Drafts.mbox
- Messages (folder): 60 KB

Inbox.mbox
- Messages (folder) : 217.7 MB

Sent Messages.mbox
- Messages (folder): 466.5 MB
DONE

* Import-5 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

mbox.mbox
- Messages (folder): 535.1 MB

* Import-7 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Deleted Messages.mbox
- mbox: 40 KB
- Messages (folder): 16 KB

Inbox.mbox
- mbox: 5.1MB
- Messages (folder): 5.5 MB

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox: 6.6MB
- Messages (folder): 7.1 MB
DONE

* Import-8 (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

Work OLD.mbox (folder): inside:
- mbox: 90.7 MB
- Messages (folder): 91.6 MB

POP-numberone@xxx.xxx: Inside - 3 folders:

Deleted Messages.mbox
- mbox: 40 KB
- Messages (folder): 64 KB

Inbox.mbox
- mbox: 5.1MB
- Messages (folder): 5.5 MB

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox: 6.6MB
- Messages (folder): 7.1 MB

POP-numbertwo@xxx.xxx: Inside - 2 folders:

Inbox.mbox
- mbox: 200 KB
- Messages (folder): 276 KB

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox: 1.4 MB
- Messages (folder): 1.5 MB

POP-numberthree@xxx.xxx: Inside - 3 folders:

Deleted Messages.mbox
- mbox: 296 KB
- Messages (folder): 376 KB

Inbox.mbox
- mbox: 32.4 MB
- Messages (folder): 34.8 MB

Sent Messages.mbox
- mbox: 100.5 MB
- Messages (folder): 106.6 MB
DONE

* Outbox.mbox (Main folder in MAILBOXES folder): INSIDE:

- mbox: 0 K
- Messages: 0 K
DONE

Reply

Answer 13

Apr 4, 2006 9:02 AM in response to misterioso270

Well, unless I missed something, I only saw one mailbox where the conversion of the its mbox file seems incomplete:

Drafts.mbox
- mbox: 5.4 MB
- messages (folder): 9.16 KB

I don't whether this one matters to you or not, but if it does, Control-click over it, and choose Duplicate, and drag the resulting copy to the Desktop. With all the others, it would appear you could safely delete the mbox file, along with any remaining leftovers files you have not needed to list.

I would encourage you to rename any mailboxes in the Mailboxes folder to be something other than names like those found in account folder, or better yet, create New Mailboxes, and move those messages as desired, and as might fit a new plan of organization. If you rename them, do so in the Mail application.

Were it not for space worries, I would suggest duplicating the entire Mail folder, after the removals, but before any renaming. An alternative would be to only duplicate the Mailboxes folder.

For the one copy of the Drafts mailbox now on your Desktop, use Import, and target it as type Other, AFTER removing its small Messages folder. This process is like importing from Panther, again, on this one mailbox, to hopefully more fully recover all the drafts (if important).

What are your questions?

Ernie

Reply

Answer 14

Apr 4, 2006 1:34 PM in response to Ernie Stamper

Wow. Finally getting the middle of this email mess! I certainly don't want to overwhelm you...

My questions basically surround the ideas I've spoken about before:

1) Copying the current important files (mboxes?) in case I need to do another import in the future from the original Panther mailboxes, and organizing the email.
2) Getting rid of unwanted files.
3) Consolidating and getting email off my laptop and backed up in some form. (archiving, and being able to read when I need to from CD - I don't have a DVD burner).

I'm still at the step of consilidating, deleting and backing up (as you well know)... so:

Question #1:
"Were it not for space worries, I would suggest duplicating the entire Mail folder, after the removals, but before any renaming. An alternative would be to only duplicate the Mailboxes folder."

I want to remind you, that I have copied the entire Mail folder onto my external Hard Drive (I did this a few weeks ago when we were converting my so called 'missing emails'). However, this is BEFORE your suggestion of deleting files. Should I keep it on my External Hard Drive for now? (I have over 100 Gigs of space on Ext. HD).

Since I know even external hard drives can goof up in the future... should I copy all the email onto CD - NOW - BEFORE I start deleting files? I am more than happy to invest in tons of CD's to make sure I've got backups of everything - just in case. And if so - WHAT do I copy at this point??? What is the important files... the mbox files? In addition: the CD's I have only can hold up to 700 MB of info. How do I deal with that situation? Will a mailbox have more than 700 MB - and if so - how can I burn CD's in that case? I'm not sure what to do.

Question #2:
You say - "I would encourage you to rename any mailboxes in the Mailboxes folder to be something other than names like those found in account folder, or better yet, create New Mailboxes, and move those messages as desired, and as might fit a new plan of organization. If you rename them, do so in the Mail application."

I want to make sure I understand this. All of the email from the 12 imports (mailboxes) in Mail came from the 3 accounts I have now. At one point, all the email was just in 5 mailboxes per account - the normal ones: Inbox, Outbox, Drafts, Sent, Delete. It's the insanity of all these imports that has me feeling kooky.

So - let's say I open the application Mail. Should I, for instance, create mailboxes with the labels "Recovered Inbox"... and then put ALL the messages from each 'inbox' from the imported mailboxes into just this new "Recovered Inbox" mailbox? (Did you follow that? - the terminology is wacky).
I would then make new mailboxes "Recovered Drafts", etc... and do the same thing as above, except now search and 'select all' messages in all Drafts imported mailboxes, and move to that mailbox.

My only concern, is - I will be moving probably a few thousand emails to the new "Recovered Inbox" and "Recovered Sent" mailboxes. Will that goof with the computer? Or can it handle that?

These are my basic questions for now. Thanks for your patience... you're really helping!!

Reply

Answer 15

Apr 4, 2006 1:58 PM in response to misterioso270

The computer can handle moving many, many messages, so I wouldn't worry, except where temporary files might run out space.

The copy, before removal of leftover files will be of little continuing interest, would think, but I thought you might need a fresh backup before much shuffling.

Also, please report on your thoughts for the value of keeping Panther mailboxes, unless still running Panther on a Mac?

If the mailboxes in the Mailboxes folder resulted from some Import activity, then I understand their names, but I would not keep them around long, but instead move their messages to other, more appropriately named New Mailboxes.

Whether you take messages that you would once have kept in the Inbox to another mailbox, or simply move to the new Inbox, is up to you.

If you have the external disk drive, then just periodically make a copy of the Mail folder, AND the com.apple.mail.plist file from Home/Library/Preferences, and you could restore that Mail folder at any time..

Btw, I have one mailbox that is over 600 MB and about 10,000 messages, so Mail can handle a lot.

Ernie

Reply