Q: Apple maps very disappointing

Thanks for the detailed thread response Dodge, unfortunately if you read through the full thread on your final link you'll see the regression path to the earlier version of iOS was only open for a very short while and has now been closed off.

Hello DodgeV83,

I sense that I'm talking to a fellow car nut...    Why else have Dodge V in the name?

My own obsession is with SS cars and Jaguar cars between 1935 and 1965... I have a few more than I really should.

Thank you for what has probably been the most comprehensive and technically helpful post in the entire thread!

Much of what you say works after a fashion - but I should correct a few things, as not all are correct. I wish they were!

There has been significant functionality loss in Maps with the move to iOS 6. Even using the horrible and overly complex (for staff to use as an effective tool) solution of multiple apps you DO NOT get the same functionality.

Let me take your points to explain them whilst my evening meal cooks...

Maps+ : Yes, quite a good app, but does NOT integrate with Calendar (we use it for scheduling deliveries) and the integration with Contacts only works on one address. Often our clients have more than one delivery address. We've contacted Maps+ to see if hey're likely to change either of those - and the answer is no. 

Streetviewer : again for the casual user this may be a viable workaround - but copying addresses, pasting them is not viable for th number we have, and certainly less functional than it was under iOS5.

Free Transit App: this may use Google on the back end, but I can't get the UK detail we could previously. I refer to bus times etc.  Transit detail isn't that important to me. Unless that is I travel down to London and want to use the Tube.

I will try this on Wednesday when I'm in London seeing a vendor. I have not here been able to link the address from contacts or calendar into this application. I don't think I'm doing anything wrong but will play with it on the train as I travel on Wednesday.

Alternative maps..: Yes, I think we've bought and tested most of them.

To be clear, NONE integrate with Calendar and only a few have a very limited Contacts integration.

For most, when you click on a contact within your Contacts list, it puts you immediately into the Apple maps application. If you wish it to deliver the  address and location of your contact - only some of these alternatives will allow you (from the Alternate Map application) to go back into your contacts but this is a long-winded and cumbersome way compared to how it was. The limitation on the number of addresses also applies.

Downgrading back to iOS 5:  Oh, I really wish that were true. Apple closed the signing window for iOS 5.1.1 just 48 hours after releasing iOS 6. Sadly because we upgraded our iPads after that 48-hour period, this was never an option open to us.

So, in summary as my meal is nearly cooked - I appreciate your positive contribution, but am sorry to say over the last week, with the exception of the Transit App, we've already travelled much of this road..

Please keep thinking though - and do shout if you find something that works, or even better that restores the Map functions we had previously..

I think for our business, time is running out, and we'll have to take steps to get another working solution by Thursday at the latest. (Friday is a big delivery day).

All the best...

Oh, and I forgot to say..

It does make me wonder: Why as a business, I'm now having to run around to try and create functionality using other apps for something that I already have the licence to use, and which is already paid for...?

It is the 'locking out' of the return path that is the problem.

Without that I think many more people would be disposed to help them.

That legal fact I think is where Apple may come unstuck in many jurisdictions.

Actually, what does Tim Cook's ego (or lack thereof) have to do with this discussion? Rather moot, don't you think?

I am rather surprised that no one has yet brought up another very important difference between Apple's map app and Google's Maps platform.

There is an altruistic component to Google's mapping platform. It is freely available to the entire world to use, which works out to a potential of 32% of the world's population, or over 2 billion people.

Now compare that to the approximately 400 million iDevice users (or less than 5%). Apple's mapping software is not free because one must pay to use it, it is only available on iDevices... and Apple wants YOU to work for free to use the app that you are paying for. Making matters worse, Google has a permanent 7 year lead on Apple and because it isn't free, they will NEVER be able to draw in the massive daily data stream that Google gathers from the shear volume of users throughout the world.

Apple wants you to send in corrections? B.S.! In fact, I suggest people stick it RIGHT BACK to Apple by sending in intentionally WRONG corrections!

I love Apple hardware, I thought that the iOS was typically better (more robust) than Android but I fear that this may become a jump the shark moment for Apple. I read a story today in a tech journal (Google it) where it was suggested that Android phones are beginning to become the new "best thing".

I was so looking forward to the iPhone 5!!   oo0oo APPLE!  Not only am I holding off plans to purchase the '5', I am not updating my '4' to iOS 6 and I am now looking at Android phones again (haven't owned one since OS 2.1).

oo0o APPLE oo0o!

P.S. To those who don't think this 'map' thing is a big deal... great many of us DO use the map application, nearly daily. Many of us use the street view function daily. Mobile phone mapping software IS an important and essential function of a phone these days B/C it has replaced the gas station paper maps. For a great many of us who travel significantly, IT IS a safety feature!

I can only speak for myself BUT I don't care that the Apple version of Google maps doesn't have TURN-BY-TURN... that is why I purchased the rather inept TomTom (which has lead me to being lost a few time in unfamiliar areas).

Interesting.

Ok, I believe I have narrowed down your complaint on iOS  6to be:

"We bought iPads precisely because the connection between the embedded calendar, contacts and maps worked so well."

I'm guessing you want to be able to navigate directly to a contact (even if the contact has multiple addresses) and directly to a calendar event? I'm a bit confused, because iOS 5 Maps doesn't have turn-by-turn built-in.

I have two questions for you:

1. Can you briefly explain your workflow here?  Something like, "We schedule the calendar events at the beginning of the day, and the drivers follow them on their iPads throughout the day, which is great because it allows us to push new calendar events to their iPads in case something new comes up. They then use Street View to confirm the address upon arrival." Would be fine.

2.  Can you briefly explain how iOS 6 maps fails you? Something like, "No street view, and it can't find the addresses." Would be fine.

^ Nice post DodgeV83, but you're mistaken. You CANNOT downgrade to iOS 5.1. One had less than 24 hours to do so after the availability of iOS 6.

As far as a fix to maps forthcoming as previously mentioned above.  That's not going to happen unless Apple has a way to stop time and work on their own new maps to build the data and content for 7 or 10 years, then come back to the present. It will take Apple at least that long to get to where Google maps are today.  Apple will never catch up or become comparable to Google maps as Google keeps on getting better and more innovative.  It's time to face reality and defeat. Apple maps is a collosial failure. Now, deal with it.

DodgeV83,

Yes you're close.

I won't go into explicit detail here, because its now late and I have work to do before bed and an early start.

OK here goes...

One main iCloud account - 12+ multiple devices, (5x iMacs +iPhone 4S + varying vintage iPads).

All customers on contacts list, most with 2 or 3 addresses - some have 5 or 6.

Deliveries scheduled on iMacs using different calendars for different areas/routes (26 routes/areas), one as 'Ad hoc' /emergency and 3 x others as if you like 'lapsed client' a flexi schedule for  who needs a face to face call and/or sample product to get them buying again.

Office uses iMacs to schedule to each rota written using home-grown software.

This uses iCloud to populate Contacts and keep current, and the same for calendars.

Sales/Drivers have both iPhones and Wireless iPads. iPads have invoices and stock/billing recording each using a separate account by route. This done with Kashflow. iPhone for phone calls & locating drivers, plus provide 3G to tethered iPad. Mapping done on iPad which has bracket in car near driver.

Sales/driver opens calendar, contacts and Maps.

Checks calendar for first drop and route - amending schedule and route for day if they wish by moving appointment. Some clients this doesn't matter, those that do (held with Contact link in Notes- it says so) so they can be called to ensure new time OK.

Once set, obviously this uses iCloud and office can see changes.

Driver picks first appt, brings up contact from appt , selects correct address and this brings up maps.

It has his location, so he/she can navigate from where he/she is, (note: that's why we were looking forward to turn by turn - instead of having to advance at each junction). In reality, most drivers know the area they're heading for - it's just pinpointing the final location.

At delivery, driver uses iPad to consign stock, create invoice (emailed) and note any schedule requests and future orders direct in calendar if possible or if need be - uses Notepad.

Can also use camera to take picture of other stock, competitors goods and any clues for future needs.

Driver then checks calendar and text/email for any additions or amendments (may be to meet another driver for additional stock if need be) then sets off to next entry - and so on until completed...

Often if not too many deliveries, they can pull off their recents and  'lapsed clients' - routing themselves via that location or a bit of sales...

As you can see, there is a lot of referring to contacts, and selecting an address, and using it to pinpoint final location.

Streetview was very useful. Kashflow uses the same contacts and you can push to calendar for reminders on overdue invoices too..

Only issue comes with poor 3G signal (one route in particular is bad) so this is combination of notes on notepad and all that can be done without 3G - then some catch up in the places where there is decent signal.

Hope that gives a flavour, and helps you see why an inaccurate integrated Map is such a pain.

We can do some of this the long winded way, but the advantage of what we had was t could be quite straightforward, but could do so much more once you get used to it.

It's worth mentioning that the drivers on each round get a healthy percentage of everything they deliver/sell, so it's them who are moaning most!

The basic problem with Apple Maps in India is that it can find almost nothing (search is useless) and can't  route anything, even if we drop a pin at the correct map location.

Forget street view or satellite or turn by turn. All that comes much later.

The elementary basics of using a map is that you want to locate a place in the map by searching for it and then asking the app to draw a route for you to follow. The search term is usually the name of the office or summary address or the name of a nearby landmark. Apple's new maps are useless for this in India a they lack data.

Expecting people to use their iPhones and provide data to Apple will take years in India. They could acquire the data of companies like MapMyIndia, which is a "Tom Tom" for India and have good data. (Apple could acquire that company if required !). This may make Apple Maps an option that works here.

The latest data shows that over 80percent of smartphone users in India, are regular users of Maps. Yesterday, a salesman at a mobile store near my place thought I was a buyer (I was just looking around). He gave me "advice" - he said " buy the Nokia, Samsung or HTC - because maps can't find anything on the iPhone". He clearly related to how important Maps are to people who buy smartphones here.

BTW, I got a new update for Maps+ today and they have somehow manages to remove the Apple Maps as have reverted to Google Maps. Maps+ works again in India now. I hope it continues that way - I won't have to then carry another Android phone only for Maps.

Yes, that's right, I noticed the Maps+ with old GMaps on Saturday itself.

However, I have not found much trouble in searching the locations on Apple Maps. It finds them alright, even names with native colloquial flavour. However, directions and other features are totally lost.

I get to see all buildings and sub-lanes too in the hybrid / satellite view, which are missing in the standard view actually.

I have tested it in Pune and Mumbai.

Well said.

I have to ask you what type of business puts untested software out to use? Where I work at we use windows computers yet every software update is tested on several machines that are not used for daily use. You should have tested on a few of your systems and not all of them and you would have found out that it wasn't working. Maybe you should have tested before deploying new software.

KC7GNM wrote:

 

I have to ask you what type of business puts untested software out to use?

You do have a good point there, KC7GNM. I made the same mistake. I had become too complacent thinking Apple stuff just works.

Although I can't help thinking Apple could have tested their Alpha maps a bit more before they put them out for public use ??

I was a great Apple fan until this. The Maps are absolutely dreadful as we all know. The one very slightly redeeming feature is that they are vector based. I now use several other Google based apps on my iphone but wont say which ones because Apple will probably cut tham off.

Here is an example of what I am saying. I took one of Mumbai's most famous hotels, commonly referred to as "Taj Land End" and searched for it. Here are the results-

1. Apple Maps (same with Maps+- looks like they have been forced to use the Apple database again)-

3. Google Local and Google Maps -

If it cant find arguably one of the most famous hotels in a city of 18 million people, how on earth is it going to find all those addresses that are relevant for most people and people search everyday?

It exists in the Apple Maps database but the Apple's search technology is also so poor, that it is unable to relate the complete address of the hotel to what people call it - the way people search for it.

When we get a software "upgrade" from a vendor, we expect the occasional bugs and crashes.

We do not expect the core functionality to be cut down.

The data is the core - everything else is just ways to mine it, search it, route it, image it etc.

A core capability has been taken away and that is what makes it probably illegal as well in several jurisdictions.

All that I want (and most people I know) is to revert to the IOS 5 Maps app in some way. Working (and easy to use) Maps is not  somthing "cool" to have on the phone - it is core functionality for a smart mobile device and many people are dependent on it.

The statistics tell their own story - on IOS5, 73% of users regularly used Maps and 25% (dropped to 4% on IOS6 in the last 6 days) used it EVERYDAY.

The solution offered by the Apple CEO does not work for many people and that is why they continue to ask for a revert to IOS5 Maps.