Previous 1 39 40 41 42 43 Next 1,017 Replies Latest reply: Dec 13, 2014 8:58 AM by Wofatt Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • crankerchick Level 1 Level 1

    Once more: I believe I agreed (mostly) with you, in that I stated it's possible it's the manufacturer's problem. My post was a (vain) attempt to get others to acknowledge that probabilty.


    I also agreed with you that Apple isn't likely to fix something that they didn't screw up, even if they can and it would be for the good of their customers (perhaps you missed that). Otherwise, if left to the manufacturers, some will issue an update, but most won't. They will just say phones running iOS 6 aren't compatible and they will just list the iPhone 5 with the compatibility it offers and be done with it. I'm sure this is what will happen with my Acura, and am already prepared for that outcome.


    Issuing an update, in and of itself, though, isn't an admission of fault. I fix things all the time that my company didn't break, but we fix, because in the end, it doesn't matter to our end customer who flubbed it up, but only that it works. When we make a mistake, we own up and provide an admission of guilt. When we fix something we didn't break, we make no such admission. I know I'm being argumentative (it's my nature) and quite literal, but logically speaking, executing a fix and admitting to a mistake are indeed two different things. One does not follow the other.


    That's all I'm saying here is, someone needs to fix it. Furthermore, the average Joe who never sees a fix from the manufacturer will blame Apple because it was iOS 6 that made this an issue for them.

  • whatheck Level 5 Level 5

    It looks like Apple just released a doc that might explain why this is happening, here -> Some car stereos require a firmware update for AVRCP 1.4 Bluetooth compatibility


    What receiver do you have? Is it on the list in the article above?

  • deepcover Level 1 Level 1

    So, it looks like some of the car radio manufacturers implemented AVRCP 1.4 incorrectly, the way this document reads.  My car stereo is listed on Apple's document.  Now I'm waiting on Pioneer. I'm glad that Apple at least officially addressed the issue. I would think that Apple would work a little closer with the car radio engineers, but you have to put more of the blame on the car radio guys for not testing this while it was in beta if you want to toss blame one way or the other.

  • apu2009 Level 1 Level 1

    Same here. My Pioneer AVH-P2400BT is there. This doesn't explain why non-listed products (headphones, hands-free devices) are screwing up though.

  • rustykerr123 Level 1 Level 1

    It does not matter if apple works closer to the other manufactures or not, the other manufactures choose to implement incorrectly, it was probbally cheaper.  Apple use to either implement correctly or provide support for incorrectly implemented devices.  Apple is not the one who developed the standard, they just follow it.

  • deepcover Level 1 Level 1

    I guess you're right. Apple did have this in Beta for a long time. It's pretty poor that Pioneer and the others never tested it out with their systems, or if they did, didn't move fast enough to issue a fix.

  • crankerchick Level 1 Level 1

    whatheck wrote:


    It looks like Apple just released a doc that might explain why this is happening, here -> Some car stereos require a firmware update for AVRCP 1.4 Bluetooth compatibility


    What receiver do you have? Is it on the list in the article above?

    Thanks for posting this. William K pointed out much earlier in this thread that Apple went to AVRCP 1.3 in iOS. Still makes the techie in me wonder what specifically different changed in iOS 6 to break AVRCP 1.3 when they added 1.4. Seems like they still messed with things related to 1.3 to cause something previously working to break.


    I had already resigned to the likelihood that the onus was going to be on the manufacturers to issue a fix much earlier in this thread once I realized what William K was saying and that it was possible for Apple not to be at fault, but still was holding out hope since no one had come and made a statement either way. I'm glad it is "officially" noted now, so I can stop hoping.


    I have no hope that Acura will issue an update, so it's over for me finally.

  • crankerchick Level 1 Level 1

    Well for anyone with an 2012 or 2013 Acura TL, which supported AVRCP 1.3 in iOS 5, I think you can safely join me in putting this issue to bed. Acura has indeed indeed finished testing the iPhone 4, 4S, and 5 with iOS 6 and they do now show that the iOS 6 devices are not compatible for song information with the radio. The site was updated 3 days ago.


    I called to ask if there was any hope of an update and that representative said at this point they still don't know. They have some vehicles that won't work with the iPhone 5 at all, for even just basic bluetooth pairing. He said that engineers have discussed in meetings the feasibility of a radio update over USB, but at this point they still need to work with Apple and determine themselves what is messed up. Apple is telling them that it's their radios, but at this point that's all they know.


    I asked specifically if it is possible to update the radio's bluetooth features and at first he said no (in the beginning of the conversation) and that only the navigation could be updated, but then at the end of the conversation said that it was indeed possible. My understanding from his statements (which are purely my interpretation), is that they already, at present, have the process and utilities to update the navigation software, but don't have the process to update bluetooth firmware (not that it can't be done, just that they don't currently do it yet). My conversation with a different representative last month made a similar statement, that it is possible to update bluetooth firmware, but it at present isn't implemented.


    I was told to check back in a few months as they have been meeting on the topic regularly with engineers on what they will do.


    The engineer in me knows what is going to happen: iOS 6 devices will forever live on as "compatible with some features" on my TL and subsequent years models until they release a model with revised firmware that will work. My guess is the new model year for 2014? I guess is when they change it? The 2013 Accord has Honda's new radio interface, which I would think will come to the TL then, so I'm going to see how my iPhone works in ours. I haven't paired it up to try yet, since we just got it only a few weeks ago.


    It might not be Apple's fault, but still I say: "Thanks for nothing." Because what I have with this iPhone right now is a whole lot of nothing. The WiFi has a nice "feature" where it turns off when the screen is off, rendering my phone a battery guzzling and occasionally data disconnected device for 8 hours every day at work where my service is bad but the WiFi is plentiful. Half of my notification sounds don't work since iOS 6 (also very well documented on the web). Along with this issue. I know, first world problems, eh? Can't wait for the jailbreak so I can remedy some of these problems.

  • crankerchick Level 1 Level 1

    i guess you missed where that's already been posted...

  • crankerchick Level 1 Level 1

    Worst advice in the second link:

    "Verify that your device is using the latest version of the iOS."


    Don't do that.

  • William Kucharski Level 6 Level 6
    Mac OS X

    It's not so much that the stereo vendors implemented AVRCP 1.4 incorrectly; it's supposed to be backwards compatible with AVRCP 1.3.


    It's more that if the vendors didn't properly implement 1.3, or worse yet put in checks to see if the version was just 1.3 (as opposed to say 1.3 or greater.)


    Note also that AVRCP 1.5 has already been published, so it's a continual and ongoing upgrade process for all involved.


    There's nothing obvious in the specs that I've been able to find (believe me, I've looked) that would have "broken" AVRCP 1.3 compatibility, so I suspect in many cases it's more of this kind of firmware coding that's at fault (Mazda apparently did something similar to this in their head ends for the Mazda 3):


    if (device_avrcp_version == 1.3)

         feature_mode = extended;


         feature_mode = basic;

  • deepcover Level 1 Level 1

    Yeah. We'll never know unless we get to look at the code. I imagine if it was just a bad if-then-else statement that we'd have new firmware by now; but you never know.

  • mowog74 Level 1 Level 1

    William Kucharski wrote:


    Once more, here's the deal:


    Those manufacturers are releasing fixes.


    They wouldn't be spending money and engineering time if it was an Apple bug, they'd just wait for Apple to fix it.


    If they're releasing an update, it's a bug in their code.


    Apple can't "remedy the situation" if it's not their bug; they're adhering to a published standard and aren't responsible if other manufacturers didn't or don't.


    Actually, aside from the first one, none of these statements are true. Companies who either don't want to mistreat their customers, or aren't revered enough to be able to do so without losing them, fix problems that aren't theirs all the time. They do spend money and engineering time to accommodate bugs or incompatibilities that aren't their fault, such as when apps rely on undocumented function calls. And Apple could remedy the situation whether or not it's their bug if they wanted to, they just don't want to.


    All anyone, including you, really knows at this point is that the only people trying to solve these problems are the stereo manufacturers.  The fact that they are working to solve them only says to me that they care about their customers and want their products to work, it doesn't say anything about whose fault the problem is.

  • deepcover Level 1 Level 1

    "And Apple could remedy the situation whether or not it's their bug if they wanted to, they just don't want to."


    If the stereo manufacturers had different issues resulting in the Bluetooth problems, then there's no way for Apple to fix this unless they give the user a way to default to AVRCP 1.3, which may not be feasible.


    Based on Apples statement, it seems like the fault lies with the manufacturers, although I agree with you that the fact that the stereo engineers are fixing it is not proof that it's their fault.

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