eMac Capacitor/Freeze Up FAQ

Question

Level 3

525 points

eMac Capacitor/Freeze Up FAQ

eMac Capacitor Problem FAQ

Since late 2005 eMac owners have been experiencing system crashes which could at first not be explained. Investigations (by the owners, and confirmed by Apple approved technicians) have shown that the cause of these crashes is a batch of faulty capacitors, used during the period of May - December 2004 (in both the eMac and iMac G5 computers). The only solution to this problem is to replace the logic board.

Faulty capacitors were also used in the iMac G5. Last year Apple announced a repair program for the iMac. To date they have not done the same for the eMac.

Which eMacs Are Affected?
Which Caps Are Bad?
How Can I Confirm My eMac Has "Bad Caps"?
What Can I Do To Stop The Crashes?
What Else Should I Do?
Who Is Affected?

Which eMacs Are Affected?

To date the problem only appears to affect 1.25Ghz eMacs, manufactured in the USA, China & Czech Republic during May - December 2004.

Which Caps Are Bad?

The capacitors which COULD go bad (as not all of them appear to go bad) are gold & black in colour, with the letters "HN(M)" on the side, and a "+" engraved on the base. You can tell if the capacitor is bad, as it will appear to be bulging out of shape, and/or leaking a brown substance.

How Can I Confirm My eMac Has "Bad Caps"?

The easiest option is to unplug your eMac, put it screen-down on a towel, and using a philips screwdriver remove the inspection hatch on the base of the computer. Inside you will find something like this:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/thecosmichobo/hatch.jpg

On the right are 2 of the many capacitors on the eMac's logic board. If they are showing signs as listed above, then your eMac is affected by this problem. If not, it is possible the unseen capacitors are faulty. Inspection of these other capacitors should be left for professionals as the CRT inside the eMac is dangerous and should not be approached without proper training.

What Can I Do To Stop The Crashes?

Restart the eMac in "Safe Mode" by holding down the SHIFT key. This disables the ATI video extensions, which helps alleviate the problem. It does however also reduce your eMac's capabilities, and is only a short-term solution, as the problem will likely continue. Another option is to remove the ATI extensions:

ATIRadeon.kext
ATIRadeon.kext/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon
ATIRadeon8500.kext
ATIRadeon8500.kext/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon8500
ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon8500DVDDriver
ATIRadeon8500GA.plugin
ATIRadeon8500GA.plugin/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon8500GA
ATIRadeon8500GLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon8500GLDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon8500GLDriver
ATIRadeon9700.kext
ATIRadeon9700.kext/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon9700
ATIRadeon9700DVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon9700DVDDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon9700DVDDriver
ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin
ATIRadeon9700GA.plugin/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon9700GA
ATIRadeon9700GLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeon9700GLDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeon9700GLDriver
ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle
ATIRadeonDVDDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeonDVDDriver
ATIRadeonGA.plugin
ATIRadeonGA.plugin/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeonGA
ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle
ATIRadeonGLDriver.bundle/Contents/MacOS/ATIRadeonGLDriver

This way you will only limit the computer's video capabilities, as the "Safe Mode" disables a lot of functions.

What Else Should I Do?

Contact Apple in your country and explain that your eMac has this problem. If you have found "bad caps", tell them, and ask to be assigned a Case Number. This will hopefully help Apple to see that there are a growing number of people with this problem, and hopefully start a repair program. You will more than likely still be told that you need to have the computer seen by an Apple technician to confirm the "bad caps".

Who Is Affected?

As at 5 April 2006, the following people have listed their eMac has having this fault on Apple Discussions:

(Main Thread "eMac freezes randomly, open window turns into broken up jibber")
Andrew Watson............6/1/06
Arghhh...........................16/1/06
larios...............................19/1/06 (first time poster)
Matt Contini....................19/1/06 (repaired for free)
KellyK..............................22/1/06 (first time poster)
BruceB............................23/1/06 (first time poster - part by Apple, labour by him)
*GBard............................23/1/06 (9 eMacs with all affected, managing 13 schools - okayed to fix)
Wayne Johansen..........27/1/06
maxus2...........................27/1/2006 (first time poster)
petalpatch......................1/2/06 (first time poster)
emacman........................7/2/06 (first time poster)
*James Smith10............9/2/06 (100 eMacs, 53 affected - all fixed by Apple, newspaper)
Wednesday White .......10/2/06 (first time poster)
Kirk Brownridge............11/2/06 (repaired for free)
William Jackson2.........15/2/06
OhioMacGuy .................21/2/06 (Called fraud by Apple phone staff; then told will pay for part, not labour; repair delayed - part had to be re-ordered; first part arrived did "not take" - Apple refused to comment further, nor let him see the original bad part)
Jason Skrycki 22/2/06 (first time poster)
greenergras...................22/2/06
mjenkins.........................22/2/06
James Jeong.................22/2/06
maxusx............................26/2/06
James Greenidge.........28/2/06
Alan Dove.......................3/3/06
BScholin.........................4/3/06 (first time poster)
PaddyO...........................5/3/06 (first time poster)
Robin Seneta.................5/3/06
Trudi................................6/3/06 (first time poster)
etherion..........................6/3/06 (first time poster)
Kim Meisel.....................7/3/06
Yan Bolly........................8/3/06 (first time poster)
FreakyFridge..................9/3/06 (first time poster)
Richard Neil....................12/3/06 (4 eMacs, 3 affected, paid for 1 to be repaired)
ste cain............................12/3/06 (first time poster, Apple agreed to repair)
TGione.............................12/3/06 (first time poster)
cosmichobo.....................13/3/06 (Repaired by Apple Australia)
trf079.................................14/3/06 (first time poster)
Hanzosteel........................14/3/06 (first time poster)
bybymsn............................14/3/06 (first time poster)
bill stokes...........................14/3/06 (first time poster)
Hopeful eMac User..........22/3/06 (first time poster)
bogdan77..........................22/3/06 (first time poster)
Carl Grasso........................22/3/06
ezachari..............................23/3/06 (first time poster)
SPresho.............................23/3/06 (first time poster)
fly.........................................24/3/06
APC....................................25/3/06 (first time poster)
Anthony Pena...................26/3/06
Andy Nelson1...................26/3/06 (first time poster)
TanMan...............................26/3/06
nelsonneville......................26/3/06 (first time poster)
palaisdementhe.................27/3/06
hippiesparx........................27/3/06 (first time poster)
we04ndy............................28/3/06
YWang...............................29/3/06
Chris neale sco...............29/3/06 (first time poster)
wolfer337........................29/3/06 (first time poster)
Tommdog ........................29/3/06
wolfer337.........................29/3/06 (first time poster)
Julien Antkies.................30/3/06
Broken Hearted...............31/3/06 (first time poster)
yabbadabba....................1/4/06
David Moffitt.....................3/4/06 (first time poster)
cmperry............................3/4/06 (first time poster)
MISTAHCOUGHDROP..3/4/06 (first time poster)
OttawaNeil.......................3/4/06 (first time poster)
Todd L Austin..................4/4/06 (first time poster)
Growly Didge..................4/4/06 (first time poster)
crystalRock......................5/4/06 (first time poster)
jamt....................................5/4/06 (first time poster)

(Other Threads)
Ivan Marshall...................7/3/06 (first time poster)
Justin Kulovsek..............17/3/06 (first time poster)
Richard Bezanson.........18/3/06 (41 of 240 eMacs affected)
Tim Fassnacht.................23/3/06

74 people, 181 eMacs affected
42 "first time posters" (Posts = 1, and/or Registered date on/about time of their post relating to this problem)

Please add your serial number here:
http://www.macfixitforums.com/php/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Forum11&Number=754025& page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

eMac 1.25Ghz, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Apr 4, 2006 11:14 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Best reply

Charles Dyer

Level 4

2,624 points

Apr 5, 2006 6:32 AM in response to cosmichobo

add me to the list. The eMac was bought at the Apple Store in the Town Center at Boca Raton mall in September 2004. It's now quite thoroughly dead. Bad caps verified by opening it up and removing the logic board. This is the first Mac I've had which has died on me, and I've been a Mac user since 17 May 1984. I've had Macs which have had problems, but never one which wasn't fixed either under the warranty or as a program from Apple after they acknowledged the problem. My very first Mac, bought as an original Mac 128, sold seven years later as a Mac Plus with 4MB installed, blew up several analog boards, but this was a known problem, and was addressed. And once the problem was addressed, that Mac lived on in other hands for at least five more years. I've never owned a Mac for less than five years... until this one. Now it's not a Mac, it's a large white paperweight.

Reply

Answer 2

PT

Level 7

20,888 points

Apr 5, 2006 7:39 AM in response to cosmichobo

It would seem this would be an opportunity for someone to make some money repairing boards by replacing all the defective caps at a much more reasonable cost to the owner than it costs to go through Apple. While not trivial and requiring someone with good soldering skills and access to good soldering equipment (your basic Radio Shack iron would do more harm than good trying to remove caps from a multi-layer board) it sounds like a straight forward repair.
It looks like the caps in question are all through-hole electrolytics, or at least very large surface mount devices. And so should have the values stamped right on them for easy identification. Then it is just a matter of buying a bunch of replacement caps and doing the replacement work.
Has anyone pulled one of the defective boards and made a list of how many capacitors we are talking about and/or their values? Or better yet, has anyone actually repaired their board and can give a first hand report on the work required?
I know I could do the repairs if I had the right iron, and other tools, at home, which currently I do not. But this might be the excuse I need to go buy a good soldering station.
Patrick

Reply

Answer 3

Apr 5, 2006 8:01 AM in response to PT

I've looked at those caps. I know that I don't wanna mess with them. I'd planned to scrap the eMac for parts if it became clear that Apple was never going to issue a recall. If, however, someone would set up a no-cure-no-pay service at a reasonable price (that is, 200-300, max, I'm not paying more) for prying dead caps (or, better, all the caps_) off the motherboard and replacing them with good ones, I'd certainly consider it. I'm just not paying $580 for a new logic board and $140 for installing it. Not on a machine that cost under $1k when new. And I can install it myself, thanks.

Hmmm... I don't have the eMac box any more, I tossed it once the warranty expired and I didn't think I'd need it any more but did need the space. Boxing it up and shipping via FedEx or UPS may be... expensive. I've got to check that out.

Reply

Answer 4

JMVP

Level 6

16,845 points

Apr 5, 2006 8:34 AM in response to Charles Dyer

Charles,

Don't scrap your eMac for parts too soon. When a number of first-generation eMacs were affected by raster shift due to a faulty IVAD cable (as was mine), there were a lot of complaints about lack of an official response by Apple. It took Apple quite a while to apparently examine enough affected units to determine the raster shift cause and come up with a fix, and even after that there was never an official announcement or statement on the subject, but unofficially Apple will replace the IVAD cable on raster-shift affected eMacs even years after the warrenty on first-generation eMacs ran out.

As a total WAG, I'd expect Apple's legal department is having some very interesting communications with the vendor of the capacitors used in mid-2004. Should the vendor admit to anything, you can bet there'd be non-disclosure agreements all over the place, but any resolution there should help with getting an unofficial replacement policy in place for the bad capacitor logic boards. If the bad capacitors are affecting several hundred out of however many tens of thousands of eMacs were made around mid-2004, I realisticaly wouldn't expect Apple to make any formal announcement, any more than it did for the raster shift issue. The Marketing arm would surely object that doing so would invite more negative publicity and adversely affect stock price than the number of affected computers justifies (assuming none of their computers are among those affected). This isn't an ideal world; keeping Marketing happy and stock prices up is the cost of staying in business. I'd settle for a sluggish Apple over an out-of-business one.

Best advice for those affected is to contact Apple Customer Relations, get in their records that your eMac is affected, and politely ask Apple to replace the logic board. If turned down, wait two weeks or so and, as politely as possible under the curcumstances, try again. There should be a record trail showing that an attempt was made through Apple Care to first resolve the issue; even if it's clear that reinstalling OS X won't help with bad capacitors, it'll help the Customer Relations people justify repair authorizations to their supervisors if they can show that, hey, the customer tried.

Those who first tried this (as in your own case) would likely be turned down, but if enough complaints come in to show Apple there's a real issue, the Customer Relations people are likely to get more leeeway for authorizing replacement logic boards. That process takes longer than anyone would want (especially when it's your computer that you paid for) but that's the nature of working with any large company. It goes without saying that rants about evil criminal indifference will get a complaint consigned straight to you-know-where; people need to remember that they're trying to persude people on the other end of the phone call to help them, and that while cursing the service folks out may make them feel better, it doesn't help.

Good luck.

Reply

Answer 5

mjenkins

Level 1

34 points

Apr 5, 2006 9:37 AM in response to cosmichobo

Just a quick thank you to CosmicHobo for sticking around and being so active in the recall/replacement efforts, even after having his computer fixed. This post is a great summary of the problem and of how many have experienced the problem. Most folks would enjoy the now-working computer and forget about the rest of us who haven't been so lucky. Thank you for not doing that!

eMac Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Reply

Answer 6

cosmichobo Author

Level 3

525 points

Apr 5, 2006 11:30 PM in response to Charles Dyer

Sorry Charles - I'm sure I was aware that you had bad caps, but didn't note your name as when the thread first started you said you weren't affected, and then only later discovered you did have the problem.

As for replacing the caps, yes, sure, there's plenty of people ready to make a buck... www.badcaps.com for one. And if Apple doesn't come to the party, it may be the best option, if you can find someone knowledgable enough to do it (seems most Apple/PC repairers only swap parts, not perform repairs).

Reply

Answer 7

cosmichobo Author

Level 3

525 points

Apr 6, 2006 12:13 AM in response to mjenkins

Thanks for that, mjenkins. I certainly consider myself very lucky and fortunate to have had the outcome that I did, and didn't want to let that stop me from thinking about everyone else that is still affected. I am drafting a follow-up email to Steve to hopefully further highlight the problem (well, to his assistant who reads the emails anyway).

Admittedly though after that (and having written what I hope will be a useful FAQ above) I think I'll need to "back off" a bit, as my obsessive nature loves finding things to fervently pursue at the detriment of the rest of my obligations, such as not just attending uni but actually doing the required readings, writing essays, doing housework...

Reply

Answer 8

aml529

Level 1

0 points

Apr 6, 2006 4:58 AM in response to cosmichobo

I found the other Apple Discussions forum on Tuesday and read through that. My eMac starting having the exact same problems starting around February 10th or 11th, so you can me to the list. I haven't checked my caps yet (because I don't have a screwdriver handy), but that must be the problem, as I have done all of the main "fixes" as well as a clean install (after backing up my data) after that and the problem still arises.

Reply

Answer 9

BruceP

Level 1

0 points

Apr 6, 2006 10:24 PM in response to cosmichobo

Please add me to the list, i even directed the boy in the apple store to this site, but i did not this thread, and he argued me that only a few people had this problem. neither of the "genius" had this problem. I told him about the capacitors freezing and logic boards needing to be replaced. He ensured NOOOO they can not be the case. Well he calls apple and in 5 minutes hangs up and informs me that the "logic board needs to be replaced". This is the apple store in Jacksonville, Fl its less than a year old, some im guessing they probably havent experienced this problem as an older store would. He told me it would only cost me $677.00 to Fix.

Reply

Answer 10

bogdan77

Level 1

0 points

Apr 9, 2006 4:49 AM in response to cosmichobo

I have a question for CosmicHobo:

Now that your eMac is fixed, have you tried to see what type of capacitors they put in this logic board? That would be useful to know, 'cause if they replace the defective ones with the same faulty type, the problem will repeat.

And something more: Does anybody know how many capacitors has the logic board? How many with a "+", and how many with a "K" ?

Thank you in advance

Reply

Answer 11

cosmichobo Author

Level 3

525 points

Apr 9, 2006 6:19 AM in response to bogdan77

From pictures I have seen of the eMac logic board, there are at least 12 caps. Generally (but not absolutely) the affected machines tend to be majority "+" caps.

When I picked my eMac up, I asked to see inside the inspection hatch right there and then. The 2 visible caps were completely different from both the "+" and "K" caps. I think one had a "Y" engraved on the base, and the other was an "X".

I guess as the board may be "refurbished", it is entirely possible that it has some of the old caps on it. If I get the same problem in 18 months, I know where I'll be visiting, and who I'll be calling/emailing. I am hoping however that the rest of the caps are also non "+" ones.

Reply

Answer 12

Apr 10, 2006 9:23 AM in response to cosmichobo

Well add to me to the list of emacs that are going bad, mine is about 1.5 yrs old and I was stupid not to buy the exteneded warranty! My eMac is exhibiting the same problems as the rest. Instead of fighting with Apple to have the issue fixed, since it is faulty equipment on there part, I went and bought a Mac Mini Duo, with Applecare, and put my eMac in the corner till a class action suit is filed against Apple and then I will get it fixed for free, like they all should have been done in the first place.

Former Apple User Group President and Apple Ambassador

eMac 1.25 Ghz Mac Mini Duo Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Reply

Answer 13

Apr 10, 2006 9:41 AM in response to BruceP

That is a terrible price considering that a New eMac only cost $799.00 when they were available. Apple needs to step up and fix this problem instead of saying it is out of warranty and expect us to pay for faulty vendor supplied parts that they in turn sold to us in the form of a 1st quality computer.

eMac 1.25 Ghz Mac Mini Duo Mac OS X (10.4.6)

Reply

Answer 14

BruceP

Level 1

0 points

Apr 10, 2006 11:21 PM in response to cosmichobo

Dude im getting a Dell, their warranties are cheap, 160 GB harddrive 1gb memory..... so long apple, for the 1.5 years, and i talked alot of people into purchasing an apple. Apple reps are very rude also.

Reply

Answer 15

JMVP

Level 6

16,845 points

Apr 11, 2006 5:02 AM in response to BruceP

Google for "leaking capacitors Dell" at this moment is returning some 29,900 hits. Replace Dell by HP and the hit count is 76,400. Toshiba, 27,400. Gateway, 33,300. Fill in any other PC maker name you can think of and add it up, then bear in mind that multiple surveys over the years have shown the Mac users are far more likely to be online and running web blogs and generating Google page hits than the average PC user. If you think bad capacitors are exclusively an Apple problem, I have some lovely Florida waterfront property in Starke for you...

Reply