Previous 1 192 193 194 195 196 Next 4,659 Replies Latest reply: Oct 29, 2014 11:58 PM by jasonb b Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • Paul Derby Level 1 (120 points)

    Russ, posting here allows me to put together a table of all the variables and whether the aggregate of each set of variables works or not.  That is what I want to send to Apple through the official bug reporting process.  I can't build up this information because I don't have all the equipment in a lab to test all the various combinations.  That's where all of us can help each other figure out what works and doesn't and report that to Apple through their official process so that the software engineer back in their lab has a chance to see what is going on and where to focus to fix the code to resolve the problems.  Or we learn what routers do and don't work at particular firmware levels.  6.0.2 fixed my problems for my particular combination of equipment at the firmware levels and settings that I use.  Others are still having problems.  Let's find out the entire environment for setups that work and setups that fail including Access Point manufacutrer, firmware level and settings to see if there is a pattern that can lead to isolating the problems so the problems can be isolated and can get fixed.


    Apple does gather the data from the bugfix reports, not from the consumer discussion groups.  Most of the discussions here are emotional or don't contain enough data to determine the root cause.  If some of you can pull together the data I'm more than happy to submit the bug report so that it gets directly to the engineeting staff.  They probably have other bug reports and they could probably use even more data to isolate down the root cause of the performance problems and failed connections.  This is a complicated environment.  The combinations of variables are huge!  Let's see if we can help, but it takes a complete list of the variables and settings in each environment to do any good.


    Here is the template again.  Just overwrite my data with your data and post.  I'll pick up the info and start building the matrix for the bug report:


    *********************   Template for reporting WiFi connectivity performance

    Device:  iPhone 5, US AT&T model

    OS: IOS 6.0.2 using SSID that broadcasts only on 5Ghz


    Access Point:  Ruckus 7363

    Transmitting a unique SSID on 5Ghz, 802.11a/n on channel 36, 40MHz channel width


    Encryption method WPA with PSK authentication (not set to auto-authenticate), AES encryption  (not set to auto-negotiate)

  results:   Throughput:  28 Mbytes/sec down, 23 Mbytes/sec up


    Comment:  works as expected


    ******************************************************************************** *********

  • Stephen Dawson1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Adding my experiences...


    iPhone 5 and iPad Minis (I've tried multiple, even an iPhone 5 swapped by Apple) all suffer glacially slow wifi. Happens when connected to Airport Expresses/Airport Extreme (latest firmware) at home using WPA2, and at the Apple store using their unprotected network. Speedtest indicates everything's fine, but any "real world" file downloads are terrible.


    The way I test is to have a large file on Dropbox and try to download it. Using 3G it flies. Using wifi it takes forever. Same goes downloading Evernote notebooks for offline use. iPhone 4 (even on iOS6) flies. Takes about 10 minutes to download them all. iPhone 5? Over 2 hours! Had high hopes for 6.0.2, but no change (maybe even worse).


    I've demonstrated the problem to an Apple Genius with an iPhone 4 and an iPhone 5 side by side in the Apple Store. The comment was "that's a bit concerning". They said they'd escalated it to engineering.


    You don't generally notice the problem in day to day browsing, emailing etc, so I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of the iPhone population don't notice it. But try downloading a large file from Dropbox - don't just rely on Speetest results either.

  • Paul Derby Level 1 (120 points)

    Hi Stephen Dawson1,


    I've started the matrix at this web site:


    Can you let me know what to fill in the boxes where there are ? entries for your situation and verify the rest of the entries?


    It may take me a day or so over Christmas to get to the postings and update this matrix.  But if enough people post their settings, both working and not working,  we should start to see a pattern of what works and what doesn't.

  • Healz4u Level 1 (0 points)

    Look. If Apple really cared about fixing the problem, they would have already gotten ahold of a non-working iPhone or other non-working IOS device and the associated router. Data collection is very straightforward. They shouldn't have to rely on the greater consumer-community to do their job for them. There have been enough posts by people, providing their non-working configurations. So, stop making excuses for Apple. If they cared enough, there is sufficient data in this discussion thread and many others to be had. I can appreciate your willingness to facilitate the information-sharing process, but making Apple appear less culpable than they truly are does no good in conveying the gravity of the situation. Continuous pressure needs to be applied. If that means contacting our local media, then so be it!

  • Stephen Dawson1 Level 1 (5 points)

    Should I be able to enter directly on that web page? Seems to be read-only. Or would you just like me to enter the info on this forum?

  • marshallfromct Level 1 (0 points)

    Paul don't take this as an attack.


    First you are talking encryption.  I have talked to dozens of people at public hot spots who have nonApple devices and can connect when I can not.  These encryption protocols are industry standerized.  It should be as simple as putting the round peg in the round hole.


    The bottom line is Apple never tested their product and is leaving that to the consumer!!

  • robertk1 Level 1 (0 points)

    The bottom line is Apple never tested their product and is leaving that to the consumer!!


    Pardon my brief rant, but this sentiment strikes a nerve with me.


    My iPhone 5 had WiFi trouble, too.  In my case, returning it and getting a replacement solved it. But not until after I wasted a lot of time trying to fix it myself, trying everything I saw on this forum and others, to no avail.  It was absolutely maddening.  So I get the frustration.


    But I think that the comments that Apple just threw this out without testing are off base (and I'm not singling out the post above, it's just an example).


    There were five MILLION iPhone 5's sold at release, and undoubtedly many more since that time.  This thread contains almost 200 pages, at ten posts to the page that's 2,000 posts.  Even if every one of those was a unique user (and they aren't), that's a tiny fraction of the number of phones out there.  Even if there are ten times as many users having problems as are reflected in this thread, it's *still* a tiny fraction of the total.  That means there are a huge number of phones out there that *do* work.


    I write software for a living.  I can tell you without doubt that there will *always* be scenarios you encounter after deployment that you didn't think of in testing, and you will have bugs.  That's just the way it goes.  Then you have to try to replicate them and solve them. 


    Does Apple need to fix this?  Absolutely.  But it isn't that simple, and just because they haven't nailed it yet doesn't mean they haven't tried or don't care.  The very existence of 6.0.2 indicates otherwise.

  • sbailey4 Level 1 (25 points)

    Yes mine is fine but I use a 4s and Dlink-DIR655 hardware rev A4 in WPA2/AES mode with the latest firmware 135NA.  Its a 2.4ghz only router. Never had any issues in this environment. I will see if I can obtain the data from my buddies environment and report back if so.

  • sbailey4 Level 1 (25 points)

    What you are missing is this is a consumer discussion group. Apple does not monitor these forums so they are not getting any of the "data" thats being posted here. What Paul is proposing is compiling a formal data log that WILL go directly to Apple. And yes the more consumers that participate the better chance there is to isolate due to all the varibles with different brands and  models and configurations within each model. Apple wont have every single router brand and model and different possible configuration of each in their labs. Plus there are devices that are not having any issues at all with iOS 6, 6.0.1 or 6.0.2.


    Anyway Paul is offering to help by submitting valid data to the proper channels (not this ***** session group). If you could help great. If not, well thats ok too. As you stated its not your job. But the more data Apple gets the more likely there will be a fix across all devices and the end result benefits us consumers.

  • Paul Derby Level 1 (120 points)

    stevendawson1,  plese enter your data here and I'll put your data into the NUMBERS spreadsheet and post it to the web page I have set up:  I apologize for not having a live web page with a database behind it to enter the data online. 


    Healz4u, you have every right to judge and react and vent your frustrations.  I totally empathize with your situation. However, I'm not here  for the judgmental conversation of how bad all this is in the past. You've got plenty of people doing that.  Pages and pages of this type of discussion.    Marshallfromct, I don't take your postings as an attack.  I've read all 25 of your postings and you have made it quite clear that you are frustrated.  The "standard encryption protocols" you've referred to several times are pretty straightforward.  However, the authentication protocols are incredibly complicated and Apple stays at the cutting edge of using the latest authentication protocols as a device shifts channels or looses and regains signal, etc.  Sometimes authentication of one sort fails and the device has to realign to a different protocol.  If you want to see some complicated messaging going on, just fire up a WiFi access point, but it in debug mode, and look at the log that emerges when a device connects. 



    For those that wish, I'm trying to have a conversation centered around the configurations that work and don't so that collectively we might ferret out a set of settings that always work, even with crippled performance, and a set of settings that don't work for various combinations of hardware and settings involving the authentication process during a connection session.  In this conversation those who choose to participate are collecting data, hoping to get enough to take an analytical look at the situation, and pass these data on to Apple engineering using their official submission process in hopes it might help them, too.



    So I you want to participate in the data collection please feel free to post your info.  Saying things like "the latest firmware" isn't helpful.  I don't have an Apple Airport Extreme so I don't know what the latest firmware release number is and that number may change tomorrow if a patch is released.  So actual numbers and models are helpful,


    Shanon.Roberts, your data would be most valuable especially if you can boil it down to end to end configuration works at NetGear AP model ? running firmware ? with whatever settings you are using for authentication and encryption…  and with newer firmware ? connections fail.


    Russ T, your response didn't come off as a personal attack at all.  Lots of you are frustrated at this situation.


    Robertk1, agree totally with your post.  Let's try to help and provide data to supplement what the Apple engineers have.


    sbailey4, thank so much for your data.  That is helpful and I'll add it to the collective data matrix. 



  • Russ T Level 1 (5 points)

    Paul - thanks for taking the high road and despite my frustration and what may appear otherwise, I appreciate your willingness to steer this in a constructive direction.


    One question I have that I've posted here before is can you suggest a reliable method for testing speed? I don't trust the iOS app because, for whatever reason, even when everything else comes to a crawl (e.g. downloads, web browsing, etc.) - shows ridiculous speeds 3-4 times what my broadband is capable of. I live in central Nebraska and I'm using Charter Cable as my ISP. When I run on my iPhone 5 - I get abysmal rates of 400-500Kbps whereas on my Macs the same site gives me normal readings in the 10-15Mbps range. states that not only does their site work with Safari on iOS but it's an ideal test because it doesn't rely on flash (which obviously the iOS app doesn't either). In addition, I have a friend who's used on his iP5 and it shows the expected results (though not on my network) and our iPads both show normal speeds (10-15Mbps) on


    I've also tried the Traffic Monitor iOS app and on my 2 iPads (1st Gen & 3rd Gen) I get normal speeds; on my iPhone - it's garbage. Using the FCC broadband iOS app, I get huge variances depending on the server I select - Denver, CO (400-500Kbps) - Dallas, TX (10-20Mbps).


    Bottom line, it's less than consistent and I have no idea if what's causing the discrepancy as it could be a whole host of things. For what it's worth, here's my specific data you requested:


    *********************   Template for reporting WiFi connectivity performance

    Device:  iPhone 5, 16GB White, Verizon

    OS: IOS 6.0.2 using SSID that broadcasts both 2.4GHz & 5GHz


    Access Point:  5th Generation AppleAirport Extreme

    SSID for both frequencies is the same; Radio mode set to automatic 802.11a/n - 802.11b/g/n

    2.4GHz & 5GHz channels both set to auto.

    FirmWare:  7.6.1

    Encryption method: WPA2  Personal - I cannot change any of the specific settings such as TKIP or AES; the other options it gives me is WPA/WPA2 Personal, WPA2 Enterprise, WPA/WPA2 Enterprise, or I can do "WEP (Transitional Security Network)" if I hold down "option" while clicking on "Wireless Security"

  results:   Throughput:  74.29Mbps download; 2.77Mbps upload


    Comment:  undetermined - the download is seriously inflated for what my broadband from Chater is capable of. Download speeds of apps, movies, songs, podcasts, etc. is inconsistent.


    ******************************************************************************** *********

  • CRZ24 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hey Russ, is your WMM on or off?

  • LCovington Level 1 (10 points)

    The new version of iOS 6 was supposed to fix the wifi issues on the iPhone 5. If you don't have the latest version of iOS, try that...

  • DarrenCook1983 Level 1 (0 points)

    I've just updated my phone this morning to iOS 6.0.2 and it has made my phone worse connects to wifi for about 20secs then back onto 3G apple needs to sort this out completely unacceptable for a phone that costs so much.

  • iPhone 5 recall Level 1 (0 points)

    Ever since the update my phone is on 3G most of the day. What a joke, Apple wake up!!!!!

    we should all go to Local media to get this story out, seems like nobody at at apple gives a dam!