Firewire cable inserted wrong way round?

An unusual problem for you:

A not-for-profit organisation in my area makes videos for voluntary bodies and other community-based groups, and also provides video training for disadvantaged teenagers. They usually bring in a freelance editor and use a G4 1Ghz MDD (OS X 10.2.8), FCP 3.0.2, a Sony DHR-1000UX (PAL) DV Deck, and a Sony HDV 1080i Mini DV camera.

None of them know anything about Macs so I usually help them out with problems (I have a Mac-based audio recording studio and have used Macs since the early '90s). I know next to nothing about FCP itself.

A couple of days ago I was called in because the Mac wouldn't boot. I was told that, the previous night, the editor had unplugged the FW cable to the deck from the rear of the G4 to connect another camera. Then, on reconnecting the deck, the Mac suddenly powered down and wouldn't boot again.

When I examined the Firewire cable at the rear of the G4, I found that the editor had jammed it in the wrong way round, i.e. the straight edge was where the "v" edge should be, and vice versa. I reinserted it correctly and the Mac started OK. But my troubleshooting Firewire drive wouldn't mount, and FCP couldn't see the Sony deck anymore, on either of the Firewire ports.

I figured that the ports/bus were blown, so I sourced a Macally 3-port PCI-to-Firewire card for them and installed it. Now I could mount my FW drive, but FCP still refused to see the deck. And if the deck was connected to the Mac before boot-up, the monitors remained in Standby mode. To get the monitors to come on, the deck now has to be disconnected.

However, if I connected the camera instead of the deck, the Mac (and FCP) saw it just fine. So, since I had my own work to do, I left it at that and promised to come back. Which I did today.

Today I ran TechTool Pro 4 hardware tests - no problems reported. Just for good measure I ran all its other tests along with DiskWarrior 3. I reset the PRAM, then went into Open Firmware and reset all NVRAM defaults. Then tested by connecting my FW drive to the original on-board FW ports. No luck. So I pulled the Firewire card and ran the Apple Hardware Tests CD. No problems reported.

I replaced the card, reset the PMU, and restarted. Connected my FW drive, again to the native Mac ports - no joy. Then I connected the drive to the PCI card ports - and suddenly my drive wouldn't mount on any of those either.

And tonight that drive - a LaCie 40Gb FW PocketDrive - won't mount on any of my own Macs anymore (although its power lamp lights).

I'm starting to suspect that the reversed Firewire connection may have blown the Sony deck's FW as well as the Mac's ports (thus explaining why the camera works OK). But I don't understand how connecting my own FW drive to a (possibly) blown port could have nuked it too.

I'm lost here, folks. A guiding light would be very welcome.

Kind regards.

Dave.

G4 dual 800s, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Apr 6, 2006 2:33 PM

Reply
12 replies

Apr 6, 2006 2:40 PM in response to Dave Bourke

Plugging a FW cable in backwards sends voltage out on the data transmit wire. Damage can be expected. Maybe when the guy did that in this case, it fused connections together, which might explain what happened to your drive later.

There's an electronic breaker in the logicboard on the FW bus. If that circuit doesn't see any voltage for five minutes or so, it resets itself.

I doubt that's going to resolve this problem, but it's worth a try. Shut Down and then unplug the AC cord from the G4. Leave it unplugged for more than 5 minutes, maybe 15 minutes to be safe. Then plug it in again boot up and see what happens.

Apr 6, 2006 2:58 PM in response to Dave Bourke

A conundrum !!!

Think you have to start by identifying the knowns and unknowns.
Whether a cable has a problem or if it really is a drive or pci board or bus problem for each device.

eg - Starting with your drive, take it to a friend who's got a mac and using a fresh cable try plugging it in. Or to a shop (if they'll let you hook up). That should tell you one thing. Assuming it's all right - then thats a known.
If it ain't, then it ain't - try remounting the drive in another enclosure to identify if it's the bus or the drive.

Time to test the problem macs.
To remove any OS issues on the macs - I'd try booting off a known good fw clone. Shut down then power up and hold the opt key at start up.
The Mac will look for drives with an OS.
If the mac sees the fw drive well, right there you know it's not that particular bus. Test them all so you can identify what may be the particular issue in a certain configuration.
Make sense ?

Work through each device slowly, step by step.

Apr 6, 2006 3:52 PM in response to Robbosaur

Thank you for your quick and helpful reply, Robbosaur.

Concerning my FW drive: OK, on my own machines the Firewire buses are working perfectly fine with other FW devices (audio). And I've already tried swapping out the cable for known good ones that work with those devices. And the cable I used today also works fine with those other devices.

So I have no doubt that the bridge chip is probably fried in the FW drive.

Concerning the problematic Mac: I had already started it up from my (now-deceased) FW drive in order to run TechTool Pro 4 and DiskWarrior. The problem arose when, in order to test the results of my troubleshooting, I connected it to the on-board FW ports which had already been hosed. After that, the drive refused to mount on anything.

Kind regards.

Dave.

Apr 9, 2006 4:13 PM in response to Dave Bourke

Oh dear, this story just gets worse. I discovered on Friday that my friends borrowed another identical Sony DHR-1000UX deck and plugged it in to the destroyed FW port on the Mac. And now this machine can't be seen by the Mac even though it's connected to the replacement FW card.

My main concern here isn't my own FW drive but the possibility that TWO Sony decks may have been hosed. If that's gonna be expensive, well...

Does anyone know of a way to test these decks' FW capabilities without destroying any more FW devices? I can't simply borrow another Mac and connect it without taking the chance that the original foul-ups may have fused power components to data components in both decks. I don't want to murder any more equipment. 🙂

Kind regards.

Dave

Apr 9, 2006 4:29 PM in response to Dave Bourke

Perhaps it's time to call in the Pros from Dover (aka technicians who do this for a living...)

When the costs of experimenting start to equal the gross national product of a small (unnamed) 3rd world nation, it is time to say enough and get it looked after by those who have both the proper gear and the liability insurance to deal with their screwups.

Cheers,
x

Apr 9, 2006 10:33 PM in response to Jim Cookman

A couple yrs ago I rented my Avid & a Sony DSR-11 deck to 2 different clients and within a year of each other, they managed to insert the FW cable the wrong way into the Dell's FW card slot. It blew the Sony FW interface chip both times. Was a $400 ($250US) repair both times, to replace the FW chip by Sony. While my example is a Avid/Dell, its the same thing if you plug the 6-pin FW cable backwards into an Apple or Dell as firewire is firewire, on either platform. It puts voltage down the data line when you reverse it and blows the deck's input chip.

Sounds like you may need to call your local Sony repair shop, sorry to say.

What i do now, is use a magic marker and put a black stripe on one side of the 6-pin FW cable end, and a coresponding black stripe above the FW slot on the PC so my client can easily match the black stripes and plug it in the right way.

Good luck with it.

Quad, 4GB RAM; and a 2 X 2.5Ghz 2MB RAM Mac OS X (10.4.5) 2 X 23" Cinema Screen, FCP5.04 Tiger 10.4.5

Apr 10, 2006 4:14 PM in response to Brian Conner

Thanks for the tip, Brian. Not sure if I can get those over here in Ireland, but I'll make a few calls. I had a good look at the sockets on the Mac. They look like cheap tin. So they spread easily. Whoever signed off on that connector design was not, in my opinion, one of our more useful members of humanity.

I can't mark your reply as Helpful because all I'm getting now are Solved buttons on all posts. Nevertheless, I do appreciate all your help on this.

Kind regards.

Dave

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Firewire cable inserted wrong way round?

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