The iPhone 5 uses Cellular Data over WiFi?

Seriously. Was this 40 years of experience with a mainframe running CICS?

Maybe you should have been the one to be fired. This is the way the WiFi specification was written and how all devices handle a WiFi connection. Since WiFi's inception. So you are saying Apple should completely ignore WiFi specs and just go out on their own? Or should Apple invent their own mobile network standards and go off on their own.

It isn't a design flaw. Or are you saying that Palm, IBM, Dell, HP, Toshiba, all had this same design flaw?

And again, you would able to live with your device remaining connected to WiFi at night and waking up in the morning with a depleted battery.

I didn't tell any Apple customers they are too stupid to use their iPhones. And people who have posted here have dissimilar problems with many of them on AT&T and not realizing that they process their billing late at night but that was not actually when the data was used.

You don't have to turn off cell data. Just connect the phone to power. (And this actually is a slight deviation from WiFi specs). What is your phone doing at night that it is using so much data?

I'd have to guess what Apple will do to fix cell data leaks. But... here goes...

1. I think Apple will place a cell-data-off button on the "Contol Center"

2. I think Apple will get a lot of the items currently in Settings/Cellular/SystemServices to work with WiFi

3. I think Apple will implement a type of wake-on-LAN technology for the WiFi radio

4. I think Apple will start enforcing rigorous application standards for WiFi support and cell-data efficiency

5. I'm almost positive that iPhones will stop using cell-data because the WiFi radio has gone to sleep

If Steve Jobs was alive he would say "I don't give a F*** about how other companies do WiFi... Apple will do it the correct way."

6. There will be the ability to set cell-data-usage alarms if the iPhone exceeds a certain amount of data on a per hour, per day, per week and/or per month basis. There will be the ability to optionally turn cell-data off if the usage alarm is tripped.

1. That is possible: http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html Not sure the demand is there.

2. Doubtful

3. Doubtful and not necessary for a mobile device

4. It isn't Apple's standar to "enforce". Apple doesn't have a cell service.

5. You can do that already. Connect the iPhone to power. No change is needed. To do what you want is going to take a breakthrough in battery technology. It isn't hear yet.

Steve Jobs was here and did care about adhering to WiFi standards. To do otherwise would be foolish and would force Apple to use only Apple Equipment that worked differently than everyone else. So if you were traveling and the hotel did not support "Apple WiFi" then you would not be able to connect and would be forced to use only cell data.

6. I already get cell data usage alarms. Those are carrier dependent.

Is number 7 going to be Apple will buy spectrum and become a cell provider?

From my experience, when I turn off the LTE, I use very little data. I used to have a 300mb a month limit and I never went over my limit on regular 3G. Once I got the new iPhone 5S I used up almost half my monthly data in just a couple of days. I tried to turn off data when I didn't need it but it was a pain in the butt to do that. Once I turned off the LTE, everything went back to normal. So it seems to me that LTE is the problem. Maybe there needs to be an option where the phone automatically turns off the LTE and reverts to 3G when it goes into sleep/power saving mode. Maybe that would help?

truerock wrote:

6. There will be the ability to set cell-data-usage alarms if the iPhone exceeds a certain amount of data on a per hour, per day, per week and/or per month basis. There will be the ability to optionally turn cell-data off if the usage alarm is tripped.

In the US AT&T and Verizon both do this. T-Mobile doesn't, because their plans have unlimited data.

truerock wrote:

I'd have to guess what Apple will do to fix cell data leaks. But... here goes...

1. I think Apple will place a cell-data-off button on the "Contol Center"

It's there already. It's called "Airplane Mode". If you want WiFi only tap Airplane Mode, then WiFi. This will turn WiFi on but leave cell data off. Yes, it requires an extra tap. But that's better than cluttering up the Control Center with more redundant buttons.

Do you actually have an iPhone? And you never noticed this, or bothered to read the manual that tells you this?

I agree with bannana77. Once I turned off LTE, my data usage went way, way down. I read somewhere in these 66 pages that the iPhone will connect to the strongest signal, which could be LTE if WiFi is weak or momentarily drops out. This is not an ideal solution, obviously, but after a year of screwing around with settings and waiting for Apple to fix this, this works for me and I moved on.

Hey, I found out Apple actually reads these forums because they deleted one of my comments as "not technical" probably because they didn't like what I had to say.

WELL HERE'S ANOTHER ONE APPLE. I just spent THREE HOURS with your customer support AGAIN trying to get this issue resolved. My data was off all night and somehow my phone incurred data charges. You say it's Verizon's fault, they say it is yours. I vote that it is YOUR FAULT. How about instead of wasting time policing the forum for comments you don't like, you fix the problem?????

Your phone did not incur data charges during the time your data was off. HOWEVER, Verizon's billing system does not report data usage when it occurs; it time stamps the usage when it is recorded in the billing system, which is typically 6 hours after it has occurred.

Lawrence,

"Airplane mode" turns off voice and text. "Cell-data-off" does not turn off voice and text.

In general most people are on a cell phone plan that has unlimited voice and text for some reasonable monthly charge in the $15-$30 range. "Airplane mode" is not something a typical person would use very often.

On the other hand, "cell data off" is something a lot of people would use multiple times per day to limit cell-data expense which is usually around $15 per GB on many plans.

Lawrence,

In the US AT&T and Verizon both do this. T-Mobile doesn't, because their plans have unlimited data.

In regard to cell-data usage alarms available from AT&T...

AT&T's alarm typically starts when you have use 60% of your monthly data plan. This has some - but, little value for most users. My family got a 60% alarm on the first day of a billing cycle last month... it was about 16 hours too late to be of any help.

A friend showed me his Samsung Galaxy smart phone today. It had a very cool smart phone app that you could set and re-set at will on the phone for any level of data usage warning at any point in a billing cycle. Much, much better than what Apple has on the iPhone - although, I could think of many improvements to Samsung's app that would be very helpful.

I find the AT&T alerts to be fine and what makes you think you (or I) speak for most users?

Have you contacted AT&T and told them you would like alerts sooner than that? Have you sent feedback to Apple to tell them you would like that and how you would prefer it to work? Do keep in mind that any app on the phone is only reading the data usage estimate on the phone and will not match what your cell provider has.

Or you could just switch to the Galaxy.

deggie wrote:

5. You can do that already. Connect the iPhone to power. No change is needed. To do what you want is going to take a breakthrough in battery technology. It isn't hear yet.

Deggie,

I leave my iPhone unplugged at night. It typically uses about 5% (sometimes 10% or a little more) of battery in 6 hours while I sleep.

I have started turning off cell-data at night and a lot of unusual cell-data usage has stopped showing up on my iPhone.

I really haven't been able to tell any difference between having cell-data on or off while I am sleeping - except I'm using less cell-data. I get email and iMessages while I am sleeping via WiFi.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not sure what is going on with the iPhone in regard to radio usage. I was at the Moody Gardens Convention Center today with thousands (tens of thousands?) of other smart phone users. My iPhone was skipping between LTE and 4G cell radios and the local WiFi supplied by the convention. My friend had a Samsung Galaxy on a different cell provider and was having the same issue. We both finally turned off our cell radios because our batteries were being sucked dry. I went from 100% battery to 60% battery in 3 hours. By switching off the cell radios I got another 3 hours going from 60% to 20% battery. The WiFi was very fast but it kicked you off if you used it for more than 5 minutes or stopped using it for a couple of minutes. I was turning my cell radios on briefly from time to time to send text messages (we are sitting in Zone b3... meet you in lobby in 5 min... etc). We were talking about not using texts and switching to e-mail for messaging - but, it was a one day convention and it was over before we got to that point.

The issue was that our smart-phones had some type of indiscernible plan for which radio it was going to use and what ever they were doing was not very logical. The phones kept trying to use cell-radios even though that was clearly a bad idea given the situation. I would have liked more control over how my phone looks for a network. I think (maybe I'm wrong) is... again... logic that avoids cell-data and uses wifi... using cell-data only when absolutely necessary.

I think cell radios use about 1 to 2 watts and a typical WiFi radio uses about 100mW. I'm not an expert on this but I believe cell radios are necessarily power hungry... they have to connect to remote cell towers.

I've read rumors that the next iOS update (coming in March?) will fix some of these bugs.

truerock wrote:

I think cell radios use about 1 to 2 watts and a typical WiFi radio uses about 100mW. I'm not an expert on this but I believe cell radios are necessarily power hungry... they have to connect to remote cell towers.

Cell phone radios use from 50 MW to 5 watts, depending on signal strength. But ONLY when actually sending data (not even when receiving). WiFi uses power continuously, as long as the radio is on, whether sending, receiving, or just waiting for data.