Previous 1 2 3 Next 30 Replies Latest reply: Apr 8, 2013 5:36 AM by keith contarino
keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

July 2011 I installed Lion over Snow Leopard and got roundly chastised for not first creating a bootable backup. Now having nothing but trouble first with carbon copy cloner then my external Lacie hard drive died.

I know the answer but I'll ask anyway; Lion was a drastic change from Snow Leopard, no more Rosetta, 64 bit from 32 bit etc. Mt Lion doesn't seem to be that drastically different than Lion. So, better chance to just download over Lion and forget about backup???


thanks in advance



MacBook (13-inch Mid 2010), Mac OS X (10.7.4)
Solved by keith contarino on Apr 8, 2013 5:36 AM Solved

Thought I would update and thank you again.

I've decided to stay with Lion since everything's working fine but I DID make a Bootable Clone and have made that a 110MB partition on external as I've added things. This has HD on it

I never made an Applications partition because you pointed out the redundancy. thanks again

I made a 300MB media/entertainment partition. Whenever I download  any new media/entertainment it goes to HD2. What I keep goes to this partition on external

The last external partition is Leftover Space and is empty


my data is always put on HD. It's saved to Mozy every day and dropbox every week

I reclone HD once a week to the external

I'm still using the data sticks but the data is on my HD, at Mozy, at Dropbox, and on external. I think 4 places is probably enough and this will be my last Stick I buy.


I see all the MacBook Pros have backlite keyboard so am thinking next time I have spare $1200 I'll get one and THEN download Mountain Lion but will always keep an up to date bootable backup clone.


Thank you for all your help



Reply by babowa on Oct 7, 2012 8:41 AM Helpful

Hmmm, to be honest I have no idea what that means either.... but I did a google search and came up with (there are more; all of them mention disk encryption and/or Windows - don't know if that would apply to you): n-os-x-lion


I have DW and don't know if it would work on that - it repairs directories, but I think your problem goes deeper than that (at least according to these articles), but you can try it; at this point, it can't hurt.


So you chose the top level entry of that drive? Can you erase the entire thing (as a first step and then try to partition later)?

Reply by babowa on Oct 10, 2012 8:31 AM Helpful

I don't use any of these - well, I have actually tried Onyx, but couldn't see a difference before and after so I stopped using it many OS versions ago; the simple facts are: if an app was installed by you dragging it to the Applications folder, simply drag it to the trash = done. If an app came with its own installer, then it usually also has an uninstaller (in the original .dmg or on their website) = use that and you're done. Any other "cleanup" is mostly not necessary, accomplished by the OS itself, or can be done manually. Just because it's available or has good ratings doesn't mean your Mac needs it to function properly.

All replies

  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8

    Depends on how much you value your data. If it is not important to you, then install away. If you've been operating without a backup all this time, then I don't imagine your data is very important at all. Hard drives die, whether you upgrade or not.

  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    Hi Barney. Thanks for reply. I'm not worried about my data. Stock sales, tax returns,papers,spreadsheets,journal articles, in other words, anything involving numbers or words as pertain to my personal or professional life are backed up every day at 3 a.m. by MOZY. Once a week I move such things to drop box and I have 2 16GB memory sticks.


    When I installed Lion, my data was protected but apps no longer worked, battery time went from 7 hours to  3 hours, I couldn't find some apps and some folders. Pictures,tv shows,videos and movies I purchased at I Tunes and elsewhere that I really didn't care about but would have been nice to have kept were gone.


    By the time 10.7.4 came out,almost all non-I Tunes issues (except the battery) were resolved. Virtually everyone at these boards insisted i should have done a complete backup and clean install which I still want to do but this seemingly simple task is becoming a royal pain in the butt. Until Lion, I had downloaded every new OS just like Apple says to with no problems. I don't want to go through what I went through with Lion and will get another external hard drive and buy Carbon Copy Cloner if that's what I should. Already purchased Disc Warrior per CCC suggestion and will bite the bullett if you say to                                

  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8

    I guess I now understand what you are getting at.

    If you have a backup, which you do, then you already have your data covered. Now, about your time.

    If you want to keep working like you were if anything goes wrong, then a bootable Clone is the way to go as you can switch right back to that.


    Personnally, I have never had a problem with any upgrade, but then I don't use a lot of software that I am invested in that costs too much to upgrade.

  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    Hey Barney

    I'm at the Apple store now and they suggest i NOT upgrade to Mountain Lion. They say it will lag due to not just faster processor, but graphics card, which is a monster compared to what's on my macbook.


    This is first Apple person to suggest staying with Lion. My Macbook had 8 Gig Ram and the 2.4 GHz processor is just a little slower (2.50 I think in new macbook pro). The RAM in thr Pro is DDR3 like mine but its faster so i don't know if 8 gigs of 1066 is much better than 4 of 1366?


    anyway, i bought a new exrenal hard drive a G Drive Slim 500GB which is plenty and probably will run it through Time Machine but thought I'd pick your brain about this


    Of course since my macbook is maxed out in every way except for hard drive, when it goes I'll have to get a pro but hoping that's 2-3 years away at least


    thanks for your help



  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8

    I've got an 8GB core 2 duo (2.66 GHz), NVidia GeForce 256MB that seems to run Mountain Lion just fine.


    The newer Macs have four-core chips, so GHz and RAM isn't the only factor.


    I'm not certain about the graphics, but I'm pretty sure Mountain Lion will use the graphics card for CPU tasks when it can, which may be what he means by the graphics being an issue.


    But, if you clone to the external, then install Mountain Lion on that, you can always go back when you decide it's not zippy enough or any other incompatibility.

  • Mike Johnson12 Level 5 Level 5

    If you want to clone then use SuperDuper - easy and painles but not free - about $20 -



  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    Hi Mike

    that's what people said about carbon copy cloner and it was anything but painless


    why can't I just use Time Machine

  • Mike Johnson12 Level 5 Level 5

    You use what ever you want - just my opinion.



  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8

    You can use whatever you want for a backup. But, if you want a bootable clone, you must use some form of cloning software.

    Carbon Copy Cloner wasn't painless????

    Pick the Source, Pick the Destination, click Clone. That's pretty non-painless. What did you do to make it painful?

  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    I ended up spending hours with owner of CCC. It would get halfway through and stop. seems disc utility wasn't allowing CCC to fix files for transport, or whatever CCC had to do to certain files.


    owner of CCC had me buy disc warrior which I did


    then my Lacie external died


    last night i simply used time capsule and plugged in a 500 GB external (G/Drive) i bought at apple store. CCC had partitioned my 250 GB hard drive into 2 125 GB partitions. I backed up both partitions. this also puts all my important data on the encrypted external so i have that data at mozy, a thumb drive, drop box, and external.


    I put everything on thumb drives on a new thumb drive once a year and destroy old one.


    Did Time Machine make a bootable backup? if not I'll try CCC again.


    if i sound confused, i am


  • Barney-15E Level 8 Level 8

    I wasn't clear. Time Machine does not make a bootable clone. That's what I meant when I stated,

    But, if you want a bootable clone, you must use some form of cloning software.

  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    No. You were clear, I just wasn't paying attention. I got CCC to extend trial period 1 day and tried to make a bootable clone last night but can't because now my destination (the new external hard drive) "Won't create a Lion backup because the g-drive slim volume is a CoreStorage volume, space cannot be borrowed from this volume for the purpose of creating a Recovery HD volume".


    So, if I understand this tidbit correctly, I have to wipe the external HD and start over if I want to make a bootable clone. Is that correct? This is going to sound amazingly ignorant, but how do I do this? I just plugged it in and everything's there going through Finder but no toolbar.


    I want to make a bootable clone. then if i want to buy mountain lion would it be possible to partition the clone and install there? Should I do this?


    Thanks in advance for your help

  • babowa Level 7 Level 7

    Did you format your external drive?


    If you plugged it in and used it for Time Machine, then TM takes over the entire drive. If you want to use it for something else as well, then you would need to partition the drive first and that will result in having the drive erased. You do not need any software that might be included with the drive. Open Disk utility and choose the external drive. Choose Mac OS Extended (Journaled) as the Format and, under the Partition tab, click on Options and make sure it is GUID. You can then choose to keep it as one Partition or add one or two. Click Apply. Your hard drive will now be erased and then ready for a clone.


    Before upgrading, make a bootable clone. Then buy/download ML - you can install it on the internal or the external clone - when the download is finished, either find the Installer in the Applications folder and make a copy of it to park it in another folder/drive for safekeeping in case you need to reinstall - or simply install it.

  • keith contarino Level 1 Level 1

    Thanks for reply. I did plug it in and use Time Machine, which was probably not a good idea. So, I've tried to do what you have suggested.


    Opened Disc Utility. Went to Erase tab and chose the external hard drive on the left hand side. Chose Mac OS Extended (Journaled) as the Format. But when I went to the partition tab Options is greyed out. The Map Scheme IS GUID but the message beside the Partition Layout reads: "Disc Utility cannot modify this disc because it contains CoreStorage physical volumes. Use command line diskutil instead." Not only do I not understand what that means, below this is says: "This partition can't be modified because it contains encrypted partitions."


    So, do I need to go to Erase and simply erase the entire drive? If so, will I then be able to proceed as I planned?


    The fact that I put everything on this external HD eventually leads to a CoreStorage problem so far no matter which route I take. I also have Disc Warrior if that is useful information for you.


    Thank you again for your help. It is very much appreciated.



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